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Trelleborg AB (publ)
7/18/2024
Welcome to the Trelleborg Q2 2024 report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to CEO Peter Nilsson and CFO Frederick Nilsson. Please go ahead.
Thank you and welcome to all of you to this interim call for Trelleborg covering quarter two, 2024. We will refer to the slides on our homepage as usual and use them as a guidance throughout the call and as usual I'm going to kick off, Peter. and give you some overall highlights and then supported by Fredrik Nilsson our CFO we're going to guide you through the financials and then I'm going to sum up with some comments on the running quarter and then of course at the end also as usual opening up for a Q&A session so once again back to this slide presented on home page and turning that to page two agenda slide starting off with some highlights and some comments on our business areas. Then Fredrik will guide us through some comments on the financial and then finishing off with a summary and some comments on the running quarter and then opening up the Q&A. Turning to page three, heading for a report, organic growth and improved margin. We are back to a positive territory, although slim, but nevertheless a positive territory in terms of organic growth in this quarter. And we also continue to deliver and improve margin year on year. So that is, let's say, the heading for the report. And more in detail, I mean, sales, 8.7 billion, basically in line with last year. We also have some discontinued operations that went away from this, which is then explaining this difference between the organic positive and the flat sales. M&A, which I also said, and what we're delegating as a discontinued operation, we sold off some check operations a year ago, and that is then impacting the overall sales results. Currency, not impacting sales in this quarter, a change from before. EBITDA, just shy of 1.6 billion, corresponding to a margin of 18.4. This 1.6 billion is actually the highest EBITDA today. We have delivered a slightly higher margin in individual quarters before, but nevertheless, in terms of operations performance, definitely one of the best quarters ever for Trelleborg in this structure. Items affecting comparability in line with our guidance, and Fredrik will get back on that, a little bit north of 100 million in the quarter. Cash flow, 1.2 billion. slightly lower compared to a very good quarter year ago. Fredrik will comment on that as well. This is a normal, let's say, development for us and the cash conversion on rolling 12 is still on a solid 18%. We also noticed satisfaction that we have completed two acquisitions in a quarter M&E group in Korea, which is then strengthening us in terms of seals for semiconductor manufacturing. And then also BP Tech Group, a Finnish company, which is also supplementing our presence in terms of rehabilitation of pipes. We also, as of yesterday, we are now the full owner of Baron Group. This was an acquisition, important one for us, get back and comment on that, important for us to strengthen our position within our medical activity, medical business area. Finalized yesterday and we are now eagerly integrating this into our operations. Once again, I will comment a little bit more on that later. Turning to page four, organic sales per geography. As you see, Asia growing by 4%, North and South America also by 3%, and Europe down by minus 1%. I mean, this is a little bit distorted. As you see, Asia, solid. North and South America benefiting from high project sales, and Europe impacted by a little bit lower project sales. So the underlying performance is more flattish if you compare to between Europe and North America. But nevertheless, this is the actual reported figures in the quarter. Turning then to page five, agenda slide again and commenting on the business areas. Quickly turning to page six and then commenting on industrial solutions, organic sales, slightly negative, supported and positive with a percentage point from M&A. Not much change compared to before. Residential construction in the industrial segments continue to be on the weaker side and industrial solutions sales in industrial solutions then supported by strong what we call project sales, especially linked to LNG and also some renewables will be then successfully been able to sell especially for some special solutions for offshore windmills, which was a good delivery for us in the quarter. Automotive sales continue to grow and we know that Asia is especially strong. All in all, I mean, well managed business and I mean, on the basis of this slightly negative Sales development, we still managed to deliver, let's say, a slim uptick in EBITDA, which is then creating an uptick 0.4%, but nevertheless 0.4 percentage points up on margin. Continued solid development in industrial solutions. And we also note now, as already commented on with satisfaction, that we're also able to deliver a good bolt-on acquisition for us once again on the pipe rehabilitation business turning to page seven on medical solutions back to organic growth i mean you say we were a little bit positively surprised here at the end of the quarter especially the north american market picked up and we were able to actually sell more than we kind of anticipated in the beginning of the quarter and we also note overall this in their inventory inventory adjustment that has been hurting us a little bit for quite a few quarters now we see finally that that is easing off we have to be careful with the term conclusions on this but this is actually this is what we see in the figures at the moment um we also know although this is sales up we still are down a little bit today this is still let's say in a creation mode of the new BA. We have been adding some costs into that structure and we also continue to invest in specific segments where we see long-term both growth and good profit possibilities. And then of course, big thing actually in this quarter happened after the quarter when we kind of finalized the Baron acquisition. So turning to page eight, some comments on that. Baron is a major stepping stone for us here to create a fully global business. I mean, we now can say that we are probably the most global, we are the most global company in terms of this segment would be a focusing basically on liquid silicone for medical applications. And with this acquisition of Baron, we will get the access to a very good manufacturing facilities in Asia and Australia. and this is something now we're looking forward to to continue to develop and creating a structure within this medical area will benefit for long term in this ride towards let's say 500 million euros of sales and a margin in line with what we guided 20% so we believe we are in a good good track on on that development and we are getting these the different let's say pieces in place now in order to to push further in that direction so then turning to page nine a little comment on ceiling solutions and back to organic growth the same heading as for for the medical solid organic growth in the quarter also benefiting from from M&A also let's say supporting us with a couple of potential points in the quarter We still note, although, that sales in the yellow industry is still declining in most markets, slightly better in Asia, flattish in Asia, where we see the overall yellow industry segment still being challenged, and linking a little bit to off-highway construction equipment, those kind of products, is still hurting us a little bit. But although we do see the light in the tunnel in that segment as well, um deliveries automotive industry increased in all regions i mean we are benefiting from good growth in in our focus segments in automotive and it's basically happening all across the world for ceiling solutions and on top of that also very strong continuous strong development in the aerospace with good order intake and good deliveries overall ebta is improving but not in line with sales and we continue been guided for here we continue to invest in in some market segments where we believe we can do better and we create a better footprint for us for the long-term benefits we continue to invest we continue to to build a better business long term in order to get to our long-term targets both in terms of growth and and profit and as part of that also we also with satisfaction um finalize this acquisition of M&A Group in Korea in the quarter, which is creating a new base for us, especially targeting the semiconductor manufacturing, which is an area we do believe in having good prospects for us going forward. Turning to page 10, some comments on sustainability. CO2 emissions continue to develop very nicely. We are, as you can see here, year on year, a substantial improvement. Turning to page 11, then you can see also, let's say, one of the major drivers for this is actually that we are increasing substantially the share of renewable and positive free electricity as part of electricity consumption. So overall, a very good development in this area. Back to page 12, agenda, financials, and then handing over to Fredrik to guide us through on page 13 and onwards.
Thank you, Peter. Let's start with sales development. Organic sales up 1% in the quarter. Looking at the business areas, as Peter mentioned, industrial solution declined 1%, while medical solution reported growth by 2%, and ceiling solution up 5%. Reporting net sales, was on par with last year. Organic sales, as I said, up 1%, but structural changes reduced the sales by 1%, and currency was net unchanged. Moving on to page 14, showing the historical sales growth. And as you can see, the second quarter was below on our sales target. That is 8%, but the positive here is that we are back to organic growth. Moving on, page 15, showing the quarterly sales on a rolling 12 months for continuing operations. As I said, sales 8.7 billion in the quarter and at the rolling 12 month basis at 33.8 billion. Moving on to page 16 and looking at the EBITDA development and also the margin development, we have an EBITDA in the quarter of 1,599,000,000, which was an increase by two percentage. And as Peter also said, it's the best ever for a single quarter. We saw profit growth for both our two largest business areas, industrial solution and ceiling solution, and a minor decrease for medical solution. In the result, there was a minor translation difference of 18 million in the quarter. Looking at the margin, Good improvement up from 18% up to 18.4%. And this is despite that we initially have some acquisitions with lower margins and we also continue to invest in the organization in some fast-growing market segments. Looking at page 17, the rolling 12 months EBITDA actually amount exactly to 6 billion with a margin of 17.7%. And as you can see in the chart, the EBIT growth over the last 12 months has been 4%. Moving on to page 18, going into some more details in the income statement. We have items affecting comparability in the quarter of 111 million, which is entirely related to restructuring costs for adjusting our cost base. Looking into the financial net, you can see minus 63 in the quarter versus 140 last year. And I would like to highlight here that last year, including the financial one-off income of 218 million, which was attributable to some interest rate swaps that we closed when we divested the tire operations. Tax rate for the quarter amounted to 24%, which is slightly below our underlying tax rate of 25%. Moving on to page 19, earnings per share. If we look at earnings per share excluding items affecting comparability, it's 449 in the quarter versus 471 in Q2 last year. But again, The impact we have here also from the closing of the interest rate swap had an impact of 173 million after tax, which translated into earnings per share is 0.68 in the Q2 numbers for 2023. Adjusted for that, we have an EPS improvement of 11% year over year. And then if you're looking at the group including the digested business, then you can see that we have a 4.14 versus 21.67. And the reason here is, of course, we have a huge impact on the discontinued operations last year, also including the capital gains related to the divestments of the tire and the printing blanket business. Moving on to page 20 and cash flow. And as you can see here, we have a cash flow of 1 billion, 190 million in the quarter. And we have a positive impact from EBITDA of 59 million in the quarter. And then you can see that we have somewhat higher working capital in the quarter. And that was related that we have seen some increased demand in certain segments, which has tied up a little bit more inventory to secure supply to our customers. And then also a little bit higher capex, which is in line with our previous guidance. That is that we have ongoing greenfield projects that are going on in 2024 as well as it did in 2023. Moving on, looking at the cash conversion. It's actually unchanged compared to a year ago. We have a good cash conversion of 88%. And that is despite that we are seeing a higher CapEx level. Moving on. To page 22, looking at the gearing and leverage development. We are now actually back to net debt position end of the quarter of 1,981,000,000. We have during this quarter, I would like to highlight, bought back shares of 937,000,000. And we have also paid out the dividend of 1,617,000,000. So the debt equity ratio was 5%. And net debt in relation to EBITDA was 0.3. So our balance sheet remains very strong. Looking at page 23, return on capital employed, 12.7% in the quarter. And our capital employed was impacted by acquisition with initial lower returns. Moving on to the guidelines for the full year. CapEx, 1.6 billion unchanged. Restructure and cost, 300 million. A small increase of 50 million from the last quarter. So we're now going for 300 million. Amortization of intangible assets, 500 million. This is excluding the baron acquisition. And we need to come back with more information when we have them calculated. Underlying tax rate, 25%. And by that, I would like to hand back the microphone to Peter.
Thank you. Thank you, Fredrik. Agenda slide again, page 25. And then quickly turning to a summary and outlook. Page 26, already common organic growth and improved margin. We believe this is a solid quarter. We are back in growth territory organically. And we also managed to improve the business in terms of margin, solid cash flow. I mean, lower than a year ago, but nevertheless, very good level still on a rolling 12 basis. And we also are happy in the quarter that we managed to make two very nice bolt-on acquisitions. One in Korea, strengthening as in semiconductor manufacturing. Another one in Finland with more or less a global presence. focusing on let's say ceilings for rehabilitation of pipes. That's a good add-on for us and then of course also very importantly after the end of the quarter we also completed a baron acquisition which is now being integrated here from as of yesterday and we will get these figures into the quarter which will then be noted of course when we report our quarter three. So that's one and then page 27 outlook we believe we have a solid order book where we see slight continued improvements continued high levels in certain areas we talk about the project business we talk about aerospace we talk also about the improvement in the medical and we see let's say a slight improvement kicking in also in some industrial segments although Continued challenges in residential construction and some of the more kind of distribution related sales, industrial sales is down. But overall, we feel confident that we're guiding for a slightly higher demand for us in Q3 compared to Q2. Of course, we still have this comment also. We still are exposed to a geopolitical situation, which is somewhat turbulent. And we need to, unfortunately, add this also to our comment. I mean, it's not an increased, let's say, increased risk, but nevertheless, it's still around and we don't know really what's happening. So that is why we're adding that. Back to the agenda and quickly Q&A. So to page 29 and opening up for Q&A. So please go ahead.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Claes Berglind from Citi. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hi, Peter and Fredrik, Claes at Citi. My first one is on the guidance, which is sequential, and you're saying somewhat higher. So should we translate this into somewhat higher year-over-year as well, around 2 to 3 percent? That's what I get to at least when I try to adjust for seasonality. And could you help us, Peter, where you see the bigger improvement quarter on quarter? We talked a lot about the North American D stock at the OEM level being a drag, I think, four quarters versus the normal two. Is that now leveling off for you? Or is it mainly China where you see improvements into the third? And you obviously have the lower level of D stock as well in medical. That should help. Some clarity there would be great. Thank you.
We don't want to guide an individual, let's say, organic growth. We guide on, let's say, getting a little better, which means, of course, it's getting a little bit better in Q3 compared to Q2 on a year-on-year basis. I mean, that is the basic guidance. And then whether we don't want to give any more. We say it's going to be slightly better. Of course, it's not a dramatic change. We believe it to be slightly better. And that's coming from basically a fairly wide activity. We still continue to see, if I say in the aerospace is good, oil and gas, the LNG is good. We still feel automotive is holding up surprisingly well. We still see that order and take in that area is good. And we know also that the downturns in construction and some of these more consumption-oriented industrials is not because they're going down any further. We see an end of this talking in the medical area. And we also note, I mean, that is maybe where we have more uncertainty, to be honest, and that is kind of the end of these, what you say, inventory downs in more kind of industrial components business. But that is where we see order intake is getting slightly better. But there we have to be open and say that is where we still see some uncertainty, how the bounce rate will be there. But overall, when we put everything together, we feel confident on this kind of a little bit raised guidance.
Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Then my second one is on TMS and the big improvement here in June. So is this sort of a complete end to the day stock or do you think that it can continue a bit in the third quarter and also on Barron's which is now finalized. Obviously, the margin here for TMS before Barron's is not really following through, as I thought, despite the better organic growth. You're obviously investing in growth, but you are confident that you can reach a 20% margin through the second half, including Barron's. If you keep investing in growth into the second half, that would suggest to me that Barron's have a great margin, maybe even 25%, just to sort of make the math work, if you could comment on that. Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, to start about the stocking, it's still volatile. Volatility is high here. I mean, honestly, what we said here, we're a little bit surprised by the uptick here in June, where the call was a little bit bigger. And of course, we don't feel fully confident that that's going to continue. But we also have to note that the comps is getting easier here in the second year. And so we feel that in terms of year on year, we feel confident that the kind of this talking will be less than a year ago. And I mean, also with the Barron, there is some synergies in this. There is some takeaways from the integration of this. We're going to create, let's say, benefits for us. I don't want to say, we have said that, I mean, including Barron, when that is integrated and it's done, then we feel confident because it gets around, let's say, 20 plus minus. I cannot say guide 20.0, but it's going to get close to 20. And that is also depend on exactly or integrate this and of course we have been building the organization in the medical solutions in order to be able to integrate this balance we are carrying a few extra costs in the quarter in order to be fully ready to take this on now as it being fully owned by us so that is of course we're looking a bit long-term view and I mean I understand that you are targeting individual quarters but for us it's more that we're going to in the next few quarters get up to a run rate of 20 and whether that will be exactly in Q3 or Q4 we are we are let's say we can give a firm guidance we believe that I mean we firmly believe that this we've been integrated and that of course get them barren on board, the margin in barren is okay, and that is something which would be beneficial for us, but it also needs to be integrated in a good way, once again, which we have been preparing for for some time, and we feel confident that that's going to happen. And then, of course, gearing up this total business for continued good organic growth. I mean, that is really what we are looking for. We are not targeting, let's say, margin for the next quarter. We are targeting a run rate here for the next, let's say, six, 12 months.
The reason why I ask is the synergies typically come a bit later versus at the time of the exact integration. So, yeah, but okay.
There is some immediate synergies, I mean, in terms of purchasing some operational assets, and that is why we feel confident that this is going to deliver good benefits.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Douglas Lindahl from DNB Markets. Please go ahead.
Hello Peter and Craig, thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to come back to the medical business. With this talking there, I guess you now are under the impression that this has been finalized. meaning the exit rate out of the quarter must have been much stronger than you had anticipated previously. And how should we sort of frame that in heading into next quarter, the second half of this year, rather thinking about the growth for the medical business? That's my first question.
Yeah, and I mean, it's difficult to guide, to be honest, Douglas, because it's, let's say, individual call-offs is a limited number of customers in a way. which is driving this, we feel that the majority of the customers is still, is now moving into growth rate again, but there still are some customers which is still doing this talking. So it's kind of a turning point. And that is why, I mean, honestly, it's difficult for us at Douglas to give you a firm guidance. We don't really know ourselves. And we need really to follow with the call of the customers. There was substantially higher call of zero in June. overall order intake in the quarter was not kind of the best but but the run rate at the end of the quarter was very good so so i mean i we we have to do the best estimate here and we need to do our judgment and we we are our best estimate that is going to get better than we saw in in q2 but i mean we cannot say that we are fully confident on that one but but we we need to look at the figures and do a judgment, our best judgment, and then be open and tell what we believe. I mean, at the moment, we do believe that it's going to get up from these 2%, but I cannot really see when it's going to get 4% or 6% or 8%. I don't know. But, I mean, we see it's going to get better. I mean, that is really what we see.
So, sorry, I can't really give any better.
No, no, no. That's fine. I'm just trying to, given it's a new business for all of us to some extent, I'm just trying to understand what the visibility really is here on your backlog.
We have a good backlog.
As you say, the business is running. We have a good backlog. We get frame orders and then they call off some of them. And the call-offs is something that we cannot really control. So that is where it's happening. But once again, our feeling is that it's really easing now in terms of these inventory reductions.
Okay, thanks. And then switching a bit to your aerospace business, you touched upon it a few times, but I just wanted to get a better understanding on how you have been impacted so far by the Airbus and Boeing situation and how you expect that you might be impacted from this going forward.
We still have a solid growth. Let's say we talk about 10% plus organic growth in this area. And I mean, it could have been even better if everybody was able to deliver and no Boeing problems or whatever. But I mean, it's really well performing all over. And the order book is growing even more. So we get, let's say, increased orders and it's more the call-offs and the run rates. And you know that the Airbus order book is very strong. The Boeing order book is also very strong. Then, of course, Boeing has their challenges, well-known challenges. But beyond those challenges, they still have a very firm order book. So we don't see any... The sales growth for us is more in terms of what the customers actually can absorb. Because the order books that the customers are growing, our order book is growing. And I mean, it's still looking very good. if we let's say, if we look medium term or long term or short term. So it's really a good demand everywhere. It's more a matter of what you're able to supply and what the customer is able to absorb.
And then a final question from my side. It looks like your performance from a cyclical standpoint is quite strong, I would say. Would you claim that you're gaining market share in certain products or segments?
I think we've been working as we talked about this investment in growth areas. And of course, that is also mixed driven. And that is something that we are getting payback on that one that we have been investing in certain areas. We are slowly changing the mix in Trelleborg. We are kind of more and more active in areas with good growth rates. And that is where we see the benefit on that one. from that effort. It's not really one individual action, it's a lot of actions and we're driving this with a feedback activity and we believe that we see the first signs of benefits now and of course continue to invest in these areas to improve. And then we have some specific segments where we have been doing very well. We have some automotive businesses doing well, we have some niches in aerospace doing well. So overall, we feel satisfied with the overall mix changes we have within Trelleborg at the moment.
Okay, thank you very much. That's it for me. Thank you.
The next question comes from Erik Gorang from SEB. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I have one question. It's in seeding solutions, so 5% organic growth in the quarter, margins still coming down a bit because of the growth investments you talked about. What kind of growth do we need to see for these investments to be absorbed? That's my question.
Yeah, hopefully we are about to turn the corner. I mean, we are getting into a growth area, as you say. Also, the growth in the quarter is a bit mixed. I mean, we still have some if I may say, volume segment still being depressed. I mean, we talk about this, as you know, flow with power, pneumatics, hydraulics, which is a lot of manufacturing volume, which is still a bit depressed. And we are kind of driving, how should I say, improved mix in sealing, although we don't really see it in the margin yet, because we have decided not really to... to flex down fully on the lower volumes in some of these core segments because we believe they're going to be bouncing back. So we feel confident, and as we see this, if the big volume segments is getting back, which we see the first signs of now, then hopefully we'll get a double up in a way that we both have a mixed change in good volumes in the quality volume segments. So that is the more of a, I should say, manufacturing mix manufacturing mix issue still exposed to some kind of under absorption in some manufacturing facilities which we on purpose kept that way in order to be ready to capture the growth going forward so but we are about to turn the corner on that one and then also we also started to see now the kind of MRP benefits in terms of sales also slowly kicking in although I mean we have been guiding we don't expect that to happen until next year so we're still carrying a little bit extra load in terms of manufacturing capacity and manufacturing resources in order to be ready for this growth as we believe are coming I mean we are not working for individual quarters here we're working in order to create a long-term better ceiling solutions and we still feel confident that we're going to get there
rapidly when we see let's say volumes getting back okay thank you the next question comes from Agnieszka Vilela from Nordea please go ahead perfect thank you my first question I think it's probably to Frederick
When we sum the other operating income and expenses, they're quite negative in the quarter of close to minus 90 million. Can you say if there is anything specific driving that cost?
No, there is nothing normal. It's, you know, we are reporting FX plus and minus about that income and cost. So it's just normal items that you have in that line in the quarter.
great thank you and then on the gross margin the quarter it was at 37 percent up by almost three percentage points year-on-year can you Fredrik and can you maybe explain what's driving the profitability improvement in the quarter despite limited organic growth no but it's a combination as you said organic growth is helping
There is also a good mix. We are growing in some right segments with good profitability. So I will say there is nothing specific. I mean, I would like to highlight in general. I mean, it's just that the operational improvement over a long time that is starting to paying off.
Perfect. Thank you. And on automotive industry, you still see quite good growth, but looking at the car production, it seems to be slowing down a bit. So can you explain what's driving the growth specifically for you in that segment?
I mean, I have to be honest, we are surprised. We didn't expect this volume to continue. What we see is continuing here going into the next quarter. There's a few drivers. I mean, we have a good after market for for this breaking business that we have within ceiling solutions we have a few new entrances in in terms of this um how should i say this uh different sensors and different kind of uh automate automate the let's say devices in cars so we have a few a few areas there we're driving it so and we're also doing good market share gains in industrial solutions in this activity. I remember we bought a small boots business that we had there. We made a small but very interesting acquisition for us in India. We created a new kind of global footprint for us. We are gaining market share in that area. We're being the only one able to offer fully global support. So there's a few special small niches we'll be doing very well, but overall, We are, as you, we know the kind of misalignment between the overall, let's say, car growth and our sales growth. So we do not fully, we don't expect it to continue. But we know that at least it looks good, at least for the next quarter. We are, for a few quarters, honestly, we have been surprised by the call-offs in this segment for us.
Great. And then just last one from me. I just wonder if you will be helping us with numbers for Barron later on, maybe providing historical quarterly development for them so we get the kind of seasonality right. Will you be disclosing that at all or not?
Not individual for Barron, no. Because this is being integrated and being introduced, so you're going to get only the full integrated profitability for medical solutions.
Okay, thank you.
The next question comes from Timothy Lee from Barclays. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for taking my questions. First question is just a little bit of follow-up on the medical solution business. Can you describe a bit further the exact reason why the performance in the later part of the quarter was suddenly improving quite a bit? Or is that the stalking activities for some of the customers suddenly happened in that later part of the quarter? Is there a particular reason to drive that outperformance? Any color would be helpful. Thank you.
No, we have a few customers that actually ordered more. I mean, we are, I mean, our overall strategy for medical solutions is to target on the bigger customers, which means that it's fairly sizable accounts, some of them. And of course, if they start to order a little bit more, it's, let's say, we noted it in the sales. So we cannot really highlight any specific Timothy. I mean, it's really that we had a bunch of customers who, who, um, started to order more than we expect and which we read into and also did information from them they're now running out of stock and they needed to to fill up again it's not happening with all customers we still have some customers who is kind of telling that they're still a little bit high in stock but we do see that some of the customers is now running out of stock and started to buy again i mean that's really the comment so it's really difficult to highlight certain areas or certain of course we know the customers we we know which customers is buying but we don't really want to highlight them in a call like this but we know that a few it's not one customer it's a few customers who started to to buy again on levels which they were buying a year ago and of course we know that i've been destocking of course we're looking at their sales level compared to inventory and stuff like that and we know that certain of the big medical companies that they are probably approaching the end of their inventory reduction cycle. But while once again, there is still a few customers, we still have overstocked. But we have to look at the big mix of customers. And if we judge on the big mix of customers, we do this overall evaluation that they are, let's say, easing the stock focus from them and are starting to buy more in line with their actual consumption and that is what we have been benefiting from here during especially during june which we see then also continuing into into next quarter for for this or a running quarter for these customers understood thank you and my second question is about margin developments uh in
in the second half of the year. So for industrial solutions, I think in the quarterly report, you also mentioned there could be some positive sales mix to drive the margin improvement. Is that something one-off or something structurally improve your mix in the segment to drive the margin?
For industrial solutions, I think the opposite here, going into the quarter, because if you remember, we don't guide for individual margins for the first, but we like to remind you, especially for industrial solutions, that a year ago, this is when we had this extraordinary order for the Panama Canal, which we have been discussing, which was highly beneficial for the margin in industrial solutions. That's not happening this year, so I don't think you should extrapolate the margin. I mean, it's going to be a challenging quarter for industrial solutions to meet the margin target for a year ago, since they do not have this. I mean, don't read into this. It's going to be a major deterioration, but nevertheless, it's going to be a challenge for them to meet their individual margin for Q3. But of course, we're doing our best and we're working for it, but it's going to be a tough comp for industrial solutions in Q3 due to this extraordinary order that we had a year ago, which we commented on at that time.
And then for ceiling solution, I think, as you mentioned earlier, you're also waiting for some of these volume segments to improve even the drive to the segment margin. And you also mentioned that the synergy from the MRP acquisition will be mainly in 2005 in your quarter report. So does it mean that the segment margin is likely to be more or less flattish in the rest of the year before we see some bigger improvement in 2025?
I mean we always have let's say we are working here I mean we are not we have been telling that we'd be aiming for a higher margin within ceiling solutions and we say that we're going to get to this target margin here at the end of 25. So, of course, we do expect, let's say, some slight improvement there going forward. We don't want a guide for individual quarters. But, of course, we are, in order to get to the long-term targets here, we need to see benefits from synergies and, let's say, once again, the extra volumes that we do expect here. But, I mean, it's not really difficult to... We don't want to give, let's say, a firm guidance on individual quarters or individual six months. But, of course, we are... not working for individual quarters, we are working for more long-term improvements and that is where we are going in that direction.
The next question comes from Hampus Engelhau from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Two questions for me. Just if, Peter, maybe could you quantify how, when you summarize second quarter, how big the Easter impact was per business area, just to get the sense if there's any deviations between the business areas. And then we don't, yeah, sorry. Go ahead.
Go ahead.
No, no.
I think for the Easter effect is mainly, I mean, if you take it, let's say working days and stuff like that, that's mainly an impact for, for ceiling solutions. It's not that really impacting industrial solutions, which is more kind of produce-related sales, which is not impacted. So we'll be at, say, 1%, 2%, let's say, of movement of organic growth from Q1 to Q2. I mean, that is what we talk about. And then exactly, we kind of do a mathematical calculation, but that is really the... Yeah, so maybe the growth in this quarter, 1% or 2%, is 0.2% high, and it was one or two percent is too low in Q1 for seeding solutions. But for the rest of the group, we don't see that really being impacted by the Easter, like we are in seeding solutions.
Super. And then maybe for you, Fredrik, on the one-of-charges guidance for the full year, I pursue that there's nothing from Barron's including in that, and it's maybe a bit too early, and we should be looking at that for maybe first half of next year. How should you think about that?
That's right Hampus, all the guidance is excluding Baron.
But with that said, we do not expect any major cost on Baron because that is really a bolt on for us and we're more using existing capacity and getting benefits from joint purchasing and some insourcing of some tooling and stuff like that, so that is nothing The synergy extraction from Barron, we shouldn't expect that to cost any money.
No, the only way we will see a change in the guidance will be when we have done the PPA calculation because then, of course, amortization will go up.
And just also for really clarifying here, when you talk about consolidating Barron, will that be fully consolidated as of third quarter or will it be two months of third quarter?
It will be two and a half months. It will be from yesterday. As of yesterday.
So we have a mid-month closing there, which is then we're getting. So we actually own it fully from as of yesterday.
Yeah, and also maybe to clarify that the payment of the baron has been also made yesterday. So it's not included in the net debt by end of Q2. Just to make that clear as well. Excellent. Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.
Thank you and thanks to all of you for showing interest in Trelleborg and showing interest in how we perform. Of course I'm available, Fredrik is available and also Kristoffer is very much available for any kind of follow-up questions. Happy to support you in any way we can to enhance your understanding of Trelleborg as we Continue to develop Trelleborg and continue to drive it towards an even better company in terms of both margin, returns and growth. And looking forward to speaking to you again, hopefully soon. And if not soon, then we will for sure touch base here in the next few months. So do take care and all the best to all of you.