Trelleborg AB (publ)

Welcome to the Trelleborg Q1 2025 report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing hash 5 on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to CEO Peter Nielsen and CFO Frederick Nielsen. Please go ahead.

Thank you and welcome to all of you to this run-through or presentation of the financial performance of Trelleborg in Q1 2025. As usual I will let's say start giving some overall headlines on the report the way we look at and also give you some input on the way we look at the business areas and then Fredrik Nilsson our group CFO will guide you through financials before I summing up with the summary and some comments on the running quarter outlook before finishing off with the Q&A and as usual we're using a slide deck presentation which is on our web page so using that and turning to page two agenda as I said highlights overall highlights business area comments financials summary and outlook and then a Q&A so moving to the slide three on the overall Today we had a solid quarter with record results. Basically we can start off by saying the development in the quarter was very much in line with our expectations and we're happy that all our business, all our three business areas delivered well in line with expectations. In summary then it's summing up then on sales of 8.8 billion an increase of 8% compared to a year ago and this 8% it has split on organic sales 1 percentage points M&A adding 6 percentage points and then currency assisting us with another 1% EBITDA basically following the sales development and ends up at 16.16 which is then a margin of EBITDA margin of 18.2 which is 0.1 percent higher than last year and this is then in total let's say both higher sales and also higher cba in a quarter for us up until now and we continue to to kind of invest in improving the structure we have let's say items affecting colorability on on similar levels as a year ago we also noted satisfaction that even though this first quarter is usually quite challenging in in terms of cash flow due to seasonality but we managed also to grow that in the quarter and we are Fredrik will comment on that later as well but we are let's say satisfied to see that we remain on the 90 percent level rolling 12 on on the cash conversion we also with satisfaction also have included and in in the quarter acquisitions of CSCUS and NuFlow in Canada, US as well. Good add-on, bolt-on acquisitions for us which is strengthening already strong positions. We also post the ending of Q1, we also announced two acquisitions, Aeroplastics which is an American acquisition related to interior for aircrafts, airplanes and also national gummi or national rubber in Sweden where we do also an acquisition supplementing our business within extruded ceiling profiles. So good quarter solid in most aspects or not all aspects from our point of view which is then delivered in a good way resulting in a record result. Turning to page four, organic sales, mixed development. As you see in the quarter, Europe a little bit more challenging, minus five. Partly then compensated by North and South America delivering solid organic growth of 3%, but most of the benefit of best development actually happening in Asia, the rest of the world, where we grow 10% in the quarter compared to last year. Turning to page five agenda again business areas and then quickly turning to page six to comment on industrial solutions solid growth in the quarter high earnings organic sales two percent M&A adding another two percent as it is mixed development in diversified industrial so we see I can say continued strong development in marine solutions, LNG project related businesses and also water infrastructure. All of them showing strong growth. Still continue to be challenging, we would call it construction segments. Maybe flattening it out in Europe but we still see, we do see a continual downturn in especially North America in this segment and that is hurting us. continue to hurt us in the quarter automotive also a little bit subdued and we see also negative growth in automotive coming from a very that's a strong few quarters last year so no surprise for us in a way but nevertheless it's a fact and all in all well managed as usual I should say and we are continue to manage the operational aspects of the business very good and we also continue to invest in structural improvements which means that overall we managed to deliver the highest ever EBITDA and also actually margin with a slim margin to before but nevertheless the best ever margin in the in this business area also already commented a new flow acquired which is then let's say opening kind of a new geographical area for us for pipe relining pipe repair very happy to have that and it will be synergistic for us as we will be able to have let's say a better way of selling these technologies also in North America and then post quarter one a smaller acquisition but nevertheless very important for this small niche business of extruded profiles we're buying the Swedish national GUMMI and thereby kind of supplementing our offering going into a little bit higher dimension profiles which we're kind of lacking in our offering before and then turning to page seven and commenting on medical solutions Strong growth with high margins is the heading organic sales solid organic sales of five percent and an M&A benefiting from the acquisition we did mid last year Baron group in especially then with the presence in China and Australia. Organic sales coming from improvements in Europe where we still see a little bit muted development both in North America and Asia But overall, nevertheless, delivering plus 5%. So solid growth overall. We also noted satisfaction that the life science segment, or we earlier called it biopharma segment, is also improving from fairly low levels. That has been depressed for quite some time, but we now see that that segment, which is then related to kind of active bacteria and vaccine and such stuff, you also see that improving now, which is going to be beneficial for us. EBITDA and margin up of course mainly due to the acquisition and synergies from the integration of the Barron Group. We also want to comment here that we have in medical solutions several ongoing and what you call capacity enhancing projects ongoing in order to really develop the global business. We are investing in Europe to grow our manufacturing platform in Europe. We are also progressing well with the project in Costa Rica in order to become both more complete but also more competitive in the Americas region. So good development overall for medical solutions and managed to deliver an EBITDA margin above 20% in the quarter. Turning to page eight. Sealing solutions here we say stable the price to some challenging markets challenging market in some aspects we'll get back and comment on that organic sales ending up at basically flat dish while M&A then adding five percent to the sales we see these sales that we call diversified industrial declined in Europe and North America but a bit of solid improvement in Asia and here of course it is kind of a mixed development where we continue to see that the construction equipment and AG is being challenged while we have continued good development in other areas like semiconductors Deliveries to the automotive industry weaker in all markets. I think that is general for all our business areas, but that is once again is not unexpected. We had very strong sales end of last year, maybe two strong sales end of last year and we are well prepared to manage this weakening in a good way. Aerospace continue to deliver very well. I mean we are global in this aspects and we are kind of covering all the main OEs in a good way and we continue also, which I get back later, we continue also to add acquisitions into this portfolio which is growing our portfolio even more and thereby improving our abilities to kind of support the industry even better going forward in the aerospace segment. EBITDA unchanged in absolute terms but impacted a little bit by lower production volumes and also we have to note as usual when we buy something in season solution we are initially being hit by somewhat lower margin in the acquired business which we then continue to work with and we continue to let's say improve in order to get them back to the margin where we want them to be. Two acquisitions one in the quarter and one supposed to post the quarter so you see them with the south US exposed to this gulf area which is a good local area especially for oil and gas activities both onshore and offshore. nice addition to our portfolio in North America and then also acquisition of Aeroplastics which is then let's say once again I commented on that before which is then let's say improving our offering widening our offering for the aerospace industry. So overall a good quarter of Seeding Solutions with kind of known challenges in a way especially related to this construction equipment and agriculture. Turning to page 9, a little bit on sustainability, we continue to improve, 8% lowering of the carbon dioxide emissions year-to-year basis, but we are getting to levels here where we will not see big percentages of improvements going forward. There's still some way to go. Of course, we're adding resources to make sure that we continue to deliver improvements, but I think this 8% year-to-year improvement is for us now a good figure. for this improvement and kind of the areas kind of the figures that we should expect also going forward. Turning to page 10 the other sustainability KPI that we are showing of course we work in a lot other areas as well but in these quarterly reports we're focusing on carbon dioxide and also share of renewable and fossil free electricity here we are basically flat this we're already running on a 90% plus activity and we are having a few areas where it's difficult actually to get fossil free electricity but nevertheless we're working on finding solutions to this as well in order to improve this figure even a little bit more. So I guess that is the overall comments on the business areas and the sustainability and basic turning to page 11. financials and then quickly turning to page 12 and ask Fredrik to take us through this section.

Thank you Peter. Looking into page 12 the sales development report net sales up 8% from 8.2 billion to 8.9 billion SEK. Organic sales up 1% in the quarter as Peter said with organic growth for both industrial solution and medical solution while ceiling solution had a flat development. M&A at the six percent in the quarter and then another one percent coming from currency effects. Moving on page 13 showing the historical sales growth. The first quarter was actually almost in line with the growth target of eight percent and it was the highest sales growth since the third quarter 2023. Moving on to page 14 showing the quarterly sales enrollment 12 months for continuing operations at last 12 months the sales amounted to 34.8 billion SEK moving on page 15 looking at the EBIT A development we had a good growth of eight percent from 1 billion 490 million up to 1 billion 616 million EBIT A was the highest so far for a quarter. We have profit growth in all three business areas, with, as Peter mentioned, a very strong growth in medical solution due to the acquisition integration of Baron Group. And we also had a good growth of 5% in industrial solution and more of flat-ish development for ceiling solution. FX on EBIT A in the quarter of 5 million. Modern-wise, up from 18.1 to 18.2 an increase by 0.1 percentage points looking at the rolling 12 months trend we have an EBITDA of 6 billion 266 million with a margin of 18 percent and we have had an EBITDA growth of five percent during the last 12 months Moving on to page 17, looking at some more details on the income statements. ITAS affecting comparability in the quarter of 61 million, entirely related to restructuring costs for adjusting our cost base. Looking further down in the income statement, financial net, an increase from minus 20 up to 144 million. And the main reasons here is that last year we were sitting with a net cash position and got some interest income of 86 million. And now we are sitting with a net debt position, which of course also implies that we get some interest expenses in the quarter. So that is the main reason why we have gone from minus 20 to minus 144 million in financial net. Tax rate in the quarter, 25%, which is in line with our underlying tax rate of 25%. Moving on to page 18, earnings per share. If you look at starting with excluded assets affecting comparability, we were up from 4.23 to 4.28. And the reason here for plus 1% is, of course, the good improvement in EBITDA offset by the higher financial net that I just explained. If you then look, including anticipated probability, earnings per share amounted to 4.08. Moving on to page 19, cash flow. As Peter said, we had a good cash flow in the quarter of 821 million, supported with a good EBITDA development of 148 million. And then cash flow from working capital was negative, but that is due to normal seasonality. And then CapEx was in line with the communicated guidance for the full year. However, somewhat higher than Q1 last year. Moving on to page 20, cash flow conversion running at the good level of 90%. So we still have a high cash conversion ratio. Looking to page 21, looking at the gearing and leverage development, we ended the quarter of 6,733,000,000 in debt. We have done share buybacks of slightly more than a billion during the quarter. Depth equity ratio of 17%, so almost flat compared to year end of 2024. And the same with net depth of EBITDA, 0.9, which was exactly the same that we had end of 2024. In other words, our balance sheet remains strong. Moving on to page 22, return on capital employed 11.8 for the quarter and of course capital employed was impacted by our recent acquisition and also on the higher pace of greenfield investments. Finally, Moving on to page 23, our guidance for 2025. They are unchanged compared to what was presented in late January, which means that capex 1,650,000,000 for the full year, approximately 300,000,000 in restructuring costs for the full year, an amortization of internables 650, and then the underlying tax rate of 25%. By that I would like to hand back the microphone to you Peter.

Thank you Fredrik. Page 24 then, the summary and outlook. Turning quickly to page 25. Solid quarter with record results. I mean all business areas delivered well in line with our expectations and good execution from all my colleagues in Trelleborg. We are delivering a solid sales growth of eight percent, the driven 1% on organic and 6% on M&A and then we're also adding some sort of currency to that EBITDA following the development on the sales and we are delivering a margin of 18.2 compared to basically on the same level as last year 0.1 or 0.1 percentage point up cash flow good as well as Fredrik said we are happy with the cash generation and we're also happy that we continue to deliver very nice and synergistic bolt-on acquisitions, although these acquisitions is somewhat pushing down the margin short term. Turning, leaving that and turning to page 26, talking a little bit more about the future. This is actually an area which is, as you know, with a higher uncertainty than usual due to known happenings around the world. But we are ending up with this. The bond is expected to be on par with the first quarter of 25. We actually had, let's say, improving business environment throughout the quarter. The good order intake end of the quarter. But nevertheless, of course, we have to also recognize this global uncertainty, which is being around. From a Trelleborg perspective, on the tariffs, we are not overly concerned with our own operations we have this local to local setup and we will be able to deliver without any kind of noticeable impact on our earnings but of course there is uncertainty and it would be strange if people were not kind of little bit more concerned than before and that is why although we are kind of in a way without this tariff situation we would of course be more positive but we're ending up with the best estimate we can do at the moment is that the demand will remain on par what we saw in the in the earlier quarter so that is but once again it's a little bit trickier than usual since we don't know exactly what's going to happen in the quarter But also with that we are ready to adjust. We are ready to kind of adapt if needed. So we feel as we stay close to the operations and we are having kind of an operational model which will address whatever happens in a good way. So with this turning to page 27 and the final agenda point Q&A. and then turning to page 28 and opening up this Q&A session.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. To enter the queue, if you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from . Please go ahead.

Thank you. Three questions. First one on margins in seeding solutions. Get that volumes are down. That's negative. But you obviously have price mix. That's positive. Is that not helping margins at all? Or is it all the dilutive impact from acquisitions that drags down the margin year on year? And if so, say something about the timeline to bring up margins on acquisitions. Let's start there.

Yeah, I mean, we still have... Not working here. Can you hear me? Lost you there for a while. Are you back now? Can you hear me now? Yes. Sorry, we have some problems here.

The next question comes from Eric Golrang from Seb. Please go ahead.

Can we start all over again?

The next question comes from Eric Golrang from SEB. Please go ahead. Please go ahead.

Okay. I have no idea if you've answered the question or not, but you can say something about the scope of margin dilution from the acquisition and the timeline to resolve that.

I don't know what's happening here.

We have some problems here, Eric. Sorry. Can you hear me now? Eric, can you hear me now?

The next question comes from Eric Golrang from SEB.

Please go ahead. Please go ahead. I can't hear you, but my line keeps mute and un-mute.

I cannot. Sorry, Eric. I cannot.

Sorry, Eric. I cannot.

I don't know what it is. Okay. Jasmine, moderator, please. Take the next question and see if it works better with someone else. It might be that Eric has some problems.

The next question comes from Agnieszka Valela from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. I have three. So maybe starting with the outlook, Peter, you mentioned that there has been some uncertainty in the outlook related to the geopolitics. And this may be why you gave a bit conservative guidance for Q2. But could you tell us about the development so far in April? Have you seen any hesitance from your customers already due to the tariffs?

I cannot say that it's been any major change but of course everybody we don't know exactly if there's some pre-buying or if there is any kind of delays I mean it's basically impossible Agnieszka at the moment to give you a view there's no drama there is no let's say major changes but it would be strange if people were not pre-buying or delaying until they know it and we need to be cautious here I mean we don't really have any meaningful facts to to guide us but of course we're talking about the flat dish demand we were plus one in q1 and i mean we would probably with kind of a normal situation and order intake we have seen we would probably be in a slightly more positive here for for q2 but i mean it is still you know it i know it that is a lot of things happening every day and it goes a bit up and down and that is really where we need to be a little bit cautious in in this one but it's nothing really in our weekly order intake or on our weekly sales, which is indicating that this kind of animated change in direction here in the first weeks of April.

Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Understood. And then on medical, I think that when you reported Q4, you warned a bit about the timing of the new year in China, that this would impact the margin in Q1. However, the margin you reported for medical was rather strong. Can you explain what's happening? Did you see at all any negative impacts from the timing of the Chinese New Year?

No, there was a negative. It was bumpy in the quarter and that was something. So we have a good match to be very open about that, which is kind of creating an uptick. And it is a small down. I mean, I think if you remember the figures correctly, I went 21 in Q4 and out 20 in Q1. So it was slightly down. and a normal quarter we lost one or two weeks due to chinese new year and that is of course impacting us also for this let's say slim downturn in margin perfect thank you and the last question maybe to frederick in your profit and loss account you report

quite negative other operating expenses in the quarter compared to previous quarters and that obviously affects the reported EBITDA whereas your gross margin is quite strong actually in Q1. Can you explain what's behind this other operating expenses and whether they are temporary? Thank you.

Two main components. One is related to PPA depreciation. Of course, now we had Barron in this quarter. We didn't have that in Q1 last year. And there is also some other acquisitions that we have done here later in 2024 and early 2025. So there is higher PPA depreciation. And then there is also some FX impact now with some entities where you have got a strengthen the local currency compared to, for example, dollar or euro. So there is a negative when you revaluate your, for example, accounts receivables. So there is a little bit of negative ethics as well. So that's the two main components.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Forbes Goldman from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.

yes hi good afternoon i have two and i'll start with one on automotive if you could talk about that exposure a bit what you're seeing in terms of how it differs the demand between europe north america asia and if you've been seeing any pre-buys as of recent

First of all, we don't have any direct exposure to OEMs. Very, very limited direct exposure. So our exposure is mainly to tier 3, tier 4, or in odd occasions to tier 2s. So we are kind of ahead, generally ahead of the underlying. So it's somewhat challenging for us to give some geographical differences. But overall, we say the same development... everywhere with maybe a little bit more positive view on Asia than Europe and North America but I mean it's really not we are not exposed that much to automotive so it's difficult for us to comment on that market.

Okay and just to follow up on that because Europe has been the worst performing market now for you for two quarters and

could you talk about what is driving that I guess it's not the automotive exposure then or what are you seeing in Europe automotive is down but so is the kind of which we mainly core industrial like hydraulics pneumatics machinery this kind of stuff is performing a little bit lower than we kind of have seen before but I mean we don't see any drama in that that is also let's say also the project related businesses which is adding a few extra percentage points in the quarter where we had higher project sales in Europe a year ago which is this quarter kind of benefiting us a little bit more and more in Asia so Asia is being pushed up a little bit by higher project sales and Europe is pushed down a little bit with lower project sales so once again we don't see this as a drama and we don't I mean the only area where we actually see the noticeable downturns is in this what we call as a construction equipment hydraulic pneumatic that is an area where we are exposing continued downturn but with that said and done we have actually seen an improved water intake in the quarter and we see it's kind of flattening and even improving here going forward and hopefully that will these orders will turn into sales and then hopefully we will see a slightly better performance going forward than we see in the last few quarters in Europe.

All right, thanks. And a final question from me is on the ceiling solutions margin. And you're starting the year now with a margin.

And margins are typically higher in H1 and H2.

Do you think we'll see a drop towards later this year? Or how are you thinking about the moving parts around that?

No, I mean, our ambition in Sealing Solutions is that that margin will improve. And that is still in the right world plans. And then, I mean, we need to work with it. We need to get a little bit demand back in certain core segments. I mean, we know that we are fairly satisfied with margin in a way even though we're aiming higher but we still have had a little bit challenges in the major segments if I say fluid power which is the major segments in Ellucian has not been performing as expecting volume wise and we do believe we're working with fairly high contribution margin fairly high cost profits in ceiling solutions so if volumes is getting somewhat back you're going to see a good leverage from that one but of course with the high uncertainty at the moment we don't know really when that's going to happen but it's continued to run on a fairly low level lower level than we want it to be and we believe once again if or when the demand kicks back a little bit that you're going to see a good leverage good upside when these volumes kicks in and we start to sell more on these gross profit levels which we have.

Okay, great. Thank you. That's all.

The next question comes from Timothy Lee from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. My first question would be on also the month-to-date development. Can you also comment a little bit about any difference between the performance in different regions that you can call out? Any changes in particular noticeable in each region that you can highlight?

If I understand you're relating to the sales development, I mean in Asia generally is doing good Asia generally is doing good driven by product sales. We have good LNG sales, good semiconductor sales, good let's say harbour production sales, good infrastructure sales So good let's say overall demand and we also see the machinery industry in both China and India especially is doing good for us Korea benefiting from from our point of view both on semiconductors and also on the LNG. Japan flat dish but overall good development in Asia. Europe a little bit more challenging in certain aspects no pick up in the construction and also somewhat muted in some of what we call core industrial or in this kind of more construction equipment related agriculture is more challenging while most of the other markets in Europe food beverage is okay so that there is kind of mix and geographical differences honestly I don't know it's kind of still the core markets is somewhat muted and of course it is uncertainty in Germany is seen on a few customers so it's nothing but nothing strange the US North America so a good project deliveries in South America for instance we have good oil and gas deliveries there which is benefiting us but still struggling in North America especially we still struggle in the construction equipment agriculture you see also this kind of construction in general is also challenged but then we have other segments also in the US doing good once again LNG and and some of these machinery segments actually doing quite okay so is it kind of a mixed portfolio automotive soft all over with a slightly better performance in in asia than the rest of the world but i mean that is weak all over but also that is kind of expected it's been i think i commented that before it's been a little bit too good so i have no uh we haven't really no surprise that we have let's say a small downturn in automotive and i'm not sure that that is kind of a Guidance for the future or if more kind of an inventory focus in in those areas so that I think yes, I can say Timothy I Don't know if you're happy with that. We have a follow-up question

I missed it. Yeah, maybe I didn't follow up. So are you seeing, say, in the US market, you know, the end users or your customers to be relatively more hesitant than the other regions? I just wonder if there's any sequential difference between customers in different regions?

Not really. I mean, it is more customer specific than segment specific. I mean, some customers are closer to the business and other customers a little bit more slower in responding so but that is not really linked to the geography as such I don't see any difference there between Europe and North America so it's the same kind of behavior everywhere and of course I mean we all know it is high uncertainty and I mean nobody is speculating at the moment people are a bit cautious I think that's of course pushing down the sales somewhat, but it's difficult or even impossible to give kind of a figure on the impact from that.

Understood. And my second question would be on your guidance for second quarter. Can you also separate between pricing and volume and how do you see the developments in the second quarter?

Pricing of course getting lower I mean of course we be adapting prices if you hit by tariffs or hit by some kind of non operational stuff today some currency movements also which is pushing the pricing but overall we are not expecting any kind of major price increases going forward so in a way the mix going forward should be more volume positive than a price positive but once again we're talking about very small

small small figures here all right very helpful thank you the next question comes from eric golrang from seb please go ahead thank you is it a better line now yes very good um i'll try again then on ceiling solutions margin if you can help us out uh to the magnitude of the margin erosion year-on-year that comes from acquisitions would assume that price mix still helps offset at least some of that volume?

I can say that I mean there is a negative we don't want to give let's say an exact figure on it but I mean it's less than 1% let's put it at that but So it's a meaningful impact but it's less than 1%. I think that we can say from the acquisitions. And then price mix is probably a slight positive in a way. But then also we still are suffering a little bit from volumes. It's not kind of really... taking off as expected especially in those kind of what I say the core volume segments which once again I mentioned many times hydraulic pneumatics but that is kind of the big bulk of ceiling solutions and that is where we will see benefits if volumes gets back there which we have let's say a more positive order intake in the quarter compared to the previous quarters but that is also where I think the uncertainty is and whether this kind of increased orders will actually turn into increased sales in this quarter or that's being pushed forward but we do see I want to be clear on that one if we have been complaining about this once again construction equipment AG for a few quarters it's been depressed and we've been running let's say 10% plus minus 10% plus on those segments and that is more flattish positives in terms of water intake now so we do see a change in that and if that is happening then you're going to see some good drop through in the ceiling solutions but that is kind of dependent on actually how sales will turn out. Orders are there, but we don't know exactly when the customers will call for their products.

Okay, thank you. Then second question on medical. What do we need to see more of an uptick here? And I guess it's especially related to North America market, which is the biggest part here. Do we need the green fields coming online or is it more the end market or the customers that are a bit hesitant to place orders?

we think overall I mean we are plus minus in the quarter plus five in the quarter and that is fairly sustainable and we do see some so these are some I should say to be careful it's our customers but a little bit bumpy orders sometimes which is not really and they are generally not taking these businesses more taking weekly orders and they're not ordering so they're not as focused on inventory working capital as our normal customers and that's why it's kind of a little bit bumpy so we shouldn't put too much we have to expect we have to be prepared that it is a little bit bumpy but overall we feel that demand is better we see the life science biopharma finally let's say kicking in a little bit positive we do see inroads in Europe as you say we are smaller in Europe but we do see that the inroads there is paying off a little bit and we do getting more orders and we do have a mixed bag in let's say North America so we say that that's this down overall in North America I don't think it's the market down I think it's more that we have had let's say a little bit unfortunate mix of customers in the quarter so we are generally quite positive that the volumes will remain on a solid positive organic growth but that is said with some uncertainty related to this once again this little bumpy bumpy call-offs or whatever we're going to call it but so we are we feel that we have turned the corner and it's getting better but with that said and done it's still going to be a little bumpy quarter and quarter here due to the fact that they ordering bulk more than kind of daily deliveries.

Okay thank you and then the final question on the margin I guess potential in industrial solution seems that division continues to surprise positively also to some extent compared to your expectations if I get it right. What's the I mean is the potential continuing to move up here given what you're doing on the M&A side entering some new markets what's the long-term potential now for industrial?

I mean we still keep the overall that we want a half a percentage points up a year it's a mixed bag it's a lot of different businesses and also like in Zeeland Solutions we have to also be open I mean we are Okay, we want to improve, but we are already, let's say, performing slightly better than most of our competitors. And when we do the acquisitions, they're actually coming in with a slightly lower EBIT margin. We have synergies in all of them. So we are very, let's say, confident that we're going to improve. But still, overall, I think we don't want to raise our ambitions more than we are aiming for this half a percentage point up per year. So that is really, let's say, the overall guidance that we can give. Thank you.

The next question comes from Hampus Engeli from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Two questions from me. Can we talk about the industrial business during the quarter? How is underlying organic growth if we can remove the project businesses that are kind of more lumpy. I think you had a lot of project business in Q4 and continued in Q1, just to get the sense on how that is trending, if we exclude that part of the business. And then, I'm sorry to come back on the marginal ceiling, but could you maybe talk a little bit how the integration is going? I mean, Minnesota seems like it's now very much dependent on volumes and costs in this but if you could add some more flavor on that one thank you.

Project business I mean we call project business but I mean small projects we're not talking about 10 million euros we're talking about smaller than that so we see it more kind of bread and butter project business so we don't really take that out so it's not that we have individual very big projects which is kind of improving in the quarter but so that is kind of a normal business for us So it's not, I mean, it's difficult to separate it. When we call project business, it's probably more that maybe we should phrase it differently. It's more than it is kind of sales into infrastructure construction into LNG. And they are slightly bigger in terms of invoicing per delivery than the others. But it's not that it's individual business. And they are benefiting that if we took out that kind of business, maybe we would have been flat instead. I mean, that is what we're talking about. But I mean, I don't really have the figure looking at Frederick. But I mean, I think it's not that kind of impact that we're going from plus two to minus five or something like that. But it could be individual percentage points if we kind of excluded LNG, excluding the tunnel seas, excluding the harbor fenders, excluding the oil houses. but I mean then we take out let's say a big part of the business and that is kind of been integrated in that business it's not only project business also after market and small upgrades and stuff like that so it's not that this kind of individual big projects so that is kind of or should I put it on because without neglecting the questions but it's not meaningful for us to look at it in that way And then on the other one, on the margin, I don't know if you want to comment on it, Fredrik.

I mean, it's really... No, but I mean, you were referring to the MRP, Hampus. And I mean, we were clear from day one that it's mainly related to sales units. We need the volume. And we have also said that we have delivered more cost units than we had in our initial plan. So it's related that we need to get volume growth.

And once again, I'm going to get back to that, where we're primarily suffering, if I may say, in volume, and especially in North America, is this construction equipment and where it's kind of a downturn. And we want that to get back. We have seen, once again, we have seen a positive water intake for the first time in a while. And if that turns into orders, which they will do eventually, but we don't know whether actually the call-off will be, then we will start to see more, let's say, benefits from the say the Minnesota from the improved structure that we have in North America because now we have integrated the factories and we all set up we have streamlined the manufacturing so when now volumes kick in they will kick into a more efficient structure and we'll start to see more more benefits in in that aspect and also I should say also maybe it's a side comment there for North America but I mean in North America is probably where we are most exposed to to call it Asian competition on the ceiling where we kind of start to see something that is partly probably why order intake is better because we see some of these guys who is buying straight from Asia or kind of redirecting to local supply and we are able to supply locally while a lot of our a lot I should say but while several of our competitors actually is manufacturing in Asia which is primarily non-American and Asian or Asian company so that is probably an area where we potentially see a small benefit actually from this tariff situation if we can start to look for that but that is an area where we do expect that to improve going forward but we will it will let's say require a more stable development in North America and without this weekly uncertainties floating around Is that sufficient, Hampus?

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

The next question comes from Carl Boakvist from ABG Sundahl Collier. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon. I believe this might be partly related to Hampus' question on Minnesota, but regarding capital allocation and return on capital employed, You have a group target of 15, which is now at 12. It's 17 in industrial, 5 in medical, 13 in ceiling. So what is the potential and timeline for all divisions to reach the group level if we put it in that way? And then also when taking the larger acquisitions recently, for example, Minnesota and Barron into account, do you assess that they meet your group target of 15% return on capital?

but we don't have individual targets per BA we only have a group target so that is kind of a mix of group targets and in some areas they are kind of beneficial in terms of margin other areas they're beneficial in terms of return on capital employed I mean that is the same for EBITDA margin is the same for growth is the same for return on capital employed so we don't really have a have a kind of individual target and that is why we don't really want to comment on that of course we have our internal plans and we feel once again if we when when we reach the 20 on on the group margin we reach the sales growth targets we will also deliver an internal capital employment group level i think you can do the calculation yourself and see that if you get this growth in ebit both by sales and and by uh by margin and of course the the return on capital employed will jump up also in a very meaningful way. That is of course our game plan.

Understood. That was really the main question then it was just a smaller follow-up regarding the cash flow generation throughout the year. You've done a lot of work internally on working capital discipline etc and just regarding this kind of current turbulent environment do you feel there is an opportunity to lower your internal working capital further or do you feel that it's a good level right now to perhaps have a bit of safety stock and working capital spread across different regions?

We are not overly concerned about our supply chain we don't buy that much across the continents we buy it locally so we have a very minor flows across let's say the continents again so we don't see that as a risky at the moment we don't see from our point of view the supply chain is not kind of of course we're looking at it and we are redirecting some and we are adjusting some but overall is it really a minor topic so we don't see a need for increased safety stock but and then on the other one we still continue to see we I think we are good well in accounts receivables generally we still have some inventory let's say, things to improve. But overall, I mean, that is still on a reasonable good level. Of course, once again, we see improvements, possibilities in the inventory. Receivables is fairly okay. But we're talking about fairly small money here if you compare it with kind of where the vast majority of the cash flow is coming. So it's not going to be a cash improvement due to lower working capital. It's not going to be a cash deterioration due to, let's say, growth in working capital. So we think we are well under control and it's kind of, we know what to do. And of course, some issues, once again, some issues, I shouldn't say there is some issues related to this new way of doing global trade, but it's not kind of in any way a meaningful impact for Trellable. Understood. That's all from my side. Thank you.

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thanks for listening in, and I think it's a solid quarter for us, the record results. Still kind of waiting for some volume coming in. We have been working with the mix, we have been working with the gross profits as I trust you see I mean we have also record high gross profit in the quarter which means that now as we believe volumes will eventually get back then they will be getting into a more efficient and more profitable structure we have had a good water intake in Q1 especially at the end of the quarter and we are a little bit now Maybe a little bit careful, you can call it, on our kind of guidance for Q2. But we think that is reasonable. And it would kind of be strange if there would be no impact on this, let's say, global uncertainties, which is flowing around. But we have good order book and we have a better order book. But once again, that is why we are cautious on the running quarter. But eventually, we believe that we're going to get further payback on the improved structure that we are working on and hopefully we will be able to share that with you in the next few quarters this is high uncertainty for the quarter but we still have some beliefs that we're going to see a better end of the year and that is I mean I think all of us hope for that and if that comes I'm sure that you're going to see an even better trailer box so thanks again for listening in and then if there is any kind of follow-up question Kristoffer is available as usual and of course Fredrik and myself is going to support Kristoffer and yourself in the best way possible and now we're offered an AGM so we have an AGM here in the afternoon so we have to end this and but once again Kristoffer is around and as always open to discuss further thanks again you take care and see you soon