Unibap Space Solutions AB

Hej och välkomna till Unibab's Q3 presentation. Som vanligt så kommer vi ge presentationen på svenska. Texten är på engelska men presentationen är på svenska. Vi spelar då även in och kommer lägga upp den på vår hemsida så att ni kan titta senare.

Vi som presenterar idag är jag och Johan, också vår nya CFO Henrik.

And we'll start as usual with financials.

Here you go, Henrik.

Yes, thank you. The third quarter was a quarter with a slightly lower turnover. We reached a net turnover of 17.3 million kronor. And half of that, about 9 million, almost 9 million kronor, saw an order of 900,000 dollars from an American research institute within Rund och Försvar. And it's an order that we both got and managed to deliver during Q3. We had hoped for an order of 14 million that we got from UAE, the United Arab Emirates, that we could have delivered it during Q3. But the export license for that year came first in Q4, so that means that both deliveries and revenues end up in Q4 for the 14 million to UAE. Year on year, that is, if we compare the last 12-month period with the 12-month period before that, we have an increase in net turnover of 27%. If we look at the movement result, the graph in the middle, it was negative for the third quarter, minus 13 million. This is a result of the lower turnover in combination with a slightly higher cost base than we have in 2025 compared to 2024. This is related to costs for our US establishment, costs for investment in defense and security, and costs for research and development. These are three areas, the US, defence and development, where we see the costs as investments in future growth. The cash flow, the image on the far right, from the current activity rose for the quarter to minus 11 million, minus 11.6. This is a direct consequence of the fact that we have now had two quarters with a somewhat lower turnover. And we have previously communicated that we have had and will have relatively large variations between the quarter, both in terms of turnover as a result and cash flows. And the third quarter is a clear example of just that. Over to Johan.

Thank you. So, the most important events during the third quarter were, of course, the two rate agreements. This is an important step for us as a company. We talk a lot about the qualification project and the constellation project. The constellation project is a volume project and the qualification is to be in-designed. Here we have moved on from the in-design phase with two companies with a frame rate. Both have guaranteed minimum volumes. Hopefully, we are not talking about the minimum volumes, the volume that it will be of the frame rate, but the purpose is that hopefully it will be more, but there are guaranteed minimum volumes. And in the first of these, which we have with Loft Orbital, the first call came. It was 1.39 million euros. And it was just this. It's for Loft Orbital's subsidiary company called Orbit Works, which is in the UAE. It was then that the export license took as long as we had hoped. But the export license has arrived now, as you can see after the quarter, without pre-preservation. So it's time to export. And we have actually already done that. The second frame was for our long-term customer, Argotec. And there we also got that we are an exclusive supplier. And it has a minimum volume of 2 million euros in the future, but no discount yet. Then we got this deal from a leading American research institute in defense and space. It was an important order for us in our entry into the American market. It was not the first order from this institute, but probably the second order. So that's good. We are designed in the Defense and Space Institute. Then we got an order for 0.64 from Scanway. Scanway is in turn the subcontractor of Payloader, the optical system, to a Korean company, Nara Space. This is from the first satellites, so we can say that this is a qualification project. If it goes well, maybe not in the first place that it goes well for us, but it goes well for the customers or the end customer, then they have the idea to send up a constellation. It is not defense oriented, but it is environmentally oriented. This is to measure methane emissions. In addition to the fact that we received an export license, a big event for us as a company was the collaboration with Leonardo. I will talk a little more about that a little later, about what the purpose is and what it means for us.

If we then go on and talk a little about the market, we have

We have talked a lot about the so-called European Awakening, the defence investments that are underway, especially within space. Europe has generally been after the USA when it comes to defence investments, but within space it has been even more unbalanced. This is the reason why companies like Leonardo are now emerging as major defence companies in Europe. The trends we see on the defense market, ISR, intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance, spatial monitoring, spy satellites, is partly that the satellites are very good today, so there is no need for a better solution in the first place. What is needed is faster information, low latency. is that you come down to near real time and real time. Real time here would mean maybe minutes instead of many hours. And that's the big driving force today. And there are a few different approaches to it, but the approaches that Leonardo has announced include edge computing and inter-satellite links, and I'll talk a little more about that. The next trend you see is this with software-defined satellites or rapid iterative development. We can quickly improve the capabilities, and that's something that we've seen in Ukraine, for example, it's this thing with means and countermeasures, that since the enemy becomes better, it requires that one becomes better. And then you can't send up hardware that you then expect to be competitive in 10 years, but you have to be able to have software upgrades. And that is also in line with how we see the market. You have to be able to upgrade, as I said, over the air to the satellites. When we talk about low latency, we can say that from a defense and security point of view, you want to go from strategic to operational and then on to tactical information. Tactical information is information that can be used for, for example, fire control or to control operations in the field. Even better is if you can get down to real time, for example, you get down to minutes. Det är inte säkert att det är en minut, men det kanske kan vara fem minuter tillräckligt för att förhållandet på marken inte ska kunna ändra sig utan man ska kunna vidta åtgärder. För att nå dit så krävs det att man tar ett antal steg. Om man vill komma ner på timmar, kanske två till fyra timmar typiskt idag, så kanske man vill ha många satelliter och så vill man ha många markstationer man kan skicka ner data till. If you want to come under an hour, it is required that you have already treated the data in the room when it comes down to the ground. If you want to come down to minutes, you have to go all the way to extract the information in the room and then when you have extracted the information in the room, the amount of data becomes much smaller and that means that you can easily send them via inter-satellite links. This is what we will talk about when we talk about Leonardo's plans as well. What it's all about is that you can go from goal identification to the task to find out how it goes, instead of having many hours in between to get down to minutes.

These are the examples, the pictures you see here are from Ukraine. The first picture is an example of

the type of information that can be extracted on the satellites. In this case, it is a radar image. If you take a radar image of an aircraft, you can see which types of aircraft, whether it is helicopters, transport aircraft, fighter aircraft and so on, and you can calculate them and you can pinpoint their coordinates. We usually say that this happens every year when it comes to IP computing, and that's true now. The USA has been a bit ahead. They are open to sending up the second so-called tranche of their missile tracking this fall. And that's to see hypersonic missiles. Then you should spot them from space. This is a precursor to what will probably become the Golden Dome, which we are talking about in the USA. The Golden Dome is many times bigger, so what you think you will build on this with missile tracking and make it even more extensive and also includes countermeasures against missiles from space. In Europe, Loft, which we have signed a framework agreement with, and their subsidiary in Orbitworks, which has announced constellations with edge computing and inter-satellite links. And then Leonardo has announced a constellation that will come up in space in 2027.

And then, of course, the Chinese are on the move all the time.

When it comes to softwares updates and what they are, it is of course to be able to improve for the standard content. And storage cycles are slow, especially when you go up in space. You can do software updates then and then. We at Junma, we keep about a six-month pace in our releases, so we come with software releases every sixth month that customers can update. But the fastest thing is, of course, if you update your AI models. You can do that basically daily. It is intended to improve object detection, or change detection, as we saw in the previous pictures, to neutralize aircraft on an aircraft base, or aircraft on the sea, or a fighter jet in a forest, or a flood, or a forest fire, or similar, if it is more civil defense oriented. This is intended to have a lot of computer power in space, as we see it. When it comes to Europe, some news has come out recently. One was that Germany made a huge investment in space defense. It's 7 billion euros per year in five years. If I remember correctly, I'm not quite sure, but I think it's six times more than what Germany is investing in. the European Space Agency, that is, the one with traditional space. So this is an incredibly large step that Germany is taking. And it is because of this delta, the incredibly large delta that has been in space investments between Europe and the USA. In Sweden, however, not so large investments have been announced, but on our side, recently, What has happened this year is that we got a space admiral for the first time. That is to say that he who is responsible for the space within the Swedish defense, is still under the Air Force, has a higher position now, so he is a space admiral assigned here during the year. He went out here now and said, his name is Anders Sunderman, he went out and said that the Swedish defense should increase its pace. Previously, it has been said that you should have your own satellite by 2030, Nu ska man ju då ju få det tidigare. Inte framgående exakt vad man menar med tidigare, men i alla fall tidigare så man accelererar tempot i Sverige också. Vi har ju sedan tidigare ett projekt för den här svenska satelliten som heter Bifrost. Den är uppe i rymden och den är operationell nu. Den genererar data, den här första. Egna svenska spaningsapplikterna, allihop med Danmark, är ju. Och där ombord har vi ju vår iX5-dator. Leonardo, one of Europe's largest defense companies. Even more interesting was that just before we could go out with our collaboration, Leonardo also announced that they will put together their space operations with Thales and Airbus. It will be a giant in Europe. There are of course larger companies in the USA, but if you look at the European market and the new trend with made in By European, or made in Europe, this will of course be a big player in the future. It will take a while before this merger goes through. They say that they will be operational in 2027. But it is still a big step for Europe. Leonardo started up his space division in March this year, so it is quite new. It's because, as a defence company, they have their own strategy. It's called the Industrial Plan. They see space as an increasingly important domain, a defence domain. They have also said in their investment presentation that they will self-finance a 20-satellite constellation. And with two technical innovations that you see in the picture. One is the so-called HPC Node. HPC Node, High Performance Computing, and Inter-Satellite Link. They will have 20 satellites, both optical and radar satellites, and they will also be connected to each other. They will process data on the satellites and link it between the satellites to get down to the ground quickly. Det här är ett exempel på när man försöker nå minuter, taktiska tider, taktisk latency egentligen. Ni ser på den här bilden också, så ser ni deras launch-schema.

Många satelliter ska upp 2027 och sedan ska en del upp 2028.

Vi har ju tecknat ett samarbetsavtal, cooperation agreement, där vi ska genomföra en teknisk studie. Syftet med studien är dels att det är tvåfaldigt. Det ena är att integrera våra datorer i deras kommande konstellationer och vi ska också gemensamt vidareutveckla våra datorlösningar. This is a good opportunity for us, we think, partly because it can become a major customer in the future, but also because we are a dual-use company that comes from commercial markets and is now on its way to the defense market. And then, of course, you have to work together with defense experts. And we see Leonardo as a perfect partner for us so that we can become defense-oriented. and become a reliable and reliable defence supplier. We will certainly remain with our dual use. We will serve both commercial and defence markets, but we usually say that we develop for commercial markets and adapt for defence markets. This means that we have competitive prices, short leads and the like, which will now also become more and more important in the defence market. Vi ser ju många fördelar med det här samarbetet, utöver givetvis att vi är beräknade med att kunna leverera till Leonardo. När vi kollar på våra målsättningar för 2025 så har vi ju många datorer som väger upp i rymden i år, medan 30 stycken är planerade. Det ser vi att det kommer hända. Det är redan många som har kommit upp. including our first standalone software, a software that is not actually embedded in the computer, but is free. It was for the Argotex Eride constellation in Italy that now runs our preprocessing software on its satellites. We would also like to bring up the iX10, our new computer generation in space, and we have got it. There are two computers that went up this spring, one of which is JAXA, the Japanese Space Agency. They work well, without any problems with the space now, so we are very pleased with that, and the customer is also pleased. There are several that are on the way now, up in the days, there will be more soon, and then even more towards the end of the year. On the production side, we have built up a little of our redundancy. We had some process steps that we only had one selection on. So we have added a little bit of capacity to get redundancy so that we do not become stagnant in production. Vi jobbar mycket med att ha korta ledtider. Vi ser det som en stor konkurrensfördel framöver. Speciellt nu när allting ska gå så fort med att rampa på försvarsmarknaden i Europa. Vi ligger på en kapacitet på runt 100 datorer om året. Det är inte så att vi säljer 100, men vi har en kapacitet på 100. Den kan vi också bygga ut om det skulle behövas. När det gäller på affärssidan så ska vi vinna kvalificeringsprojekt. Det har vi gjort. We have expanded in the USA and had the first businesses. We got a project here under Q3. som vi inte hade fått om vi inte hade haft eget bolag i USA. Så vi har ju nu säljare anställda och vi jobbar steg för steg för att bygga upp vår verksamhet i USA för att kunna bli en på sikt också en etablerad försvarsleverantör där. Sedan måste vi givetvis, så har vi också som mål att ta tillvara då det här European Awakening och det kan man väl säga att den stora skalpen där är ju då givetvis Leonardo. We have been working with Leonardo for about a year, so it has actually gone very quickly, and it has been a sign in time that it has to go fast now to ramp up defence investments in Europe. Previously, it might have taken five years, now it only takes one year for us to get through that. We are looking forward to the market. Så vi räknar att vi kan ligga på vår genomsnittliga tillväxt på 30 till 50, men det kommer ju att struktureras, och tyvärr så strukturerar det kanske lite lägre än 30. Vi spesar inte exakt var vi kommer hamna, det finns vissa uppsidor kvar, vi har ju korta leveranstider, men vi tror inte i dagsläget att vi kommer nå hela vägen till 30%.

Och därmed så var vi klara och redo för att ta frågor via vår chatt.

I have a question about subject and export approval. When we get orders that we announce to the public that are dependent on an export license, we usually write that it is subject and export approved. We do not sell to sensitive countries. We have, for example, a member country called China. So even if we need export licenses to another country, for example Korea, there is not always a high risk that we will not get these export licenses. And this also applies to UAE. So this year we have got export licenses to Korea and the United Arab Emirates, UAE. We have a question here about how close cooperation we have with the Royal Admiral Anders. Generally speaking, when it comes to the defense, we have a close collaboration. We have this Bifrost project, so we have active projects with the Swedish defense today, and they are related to the Bifrost satellite, where we, in addition to delivering data, also assist with software and software assistance.

A question about AWS.

We had quite intensive work with AWS for a number of years, maybe three years ago. I think I mentioned in a previous quarterly report that AWS has scaled back its space ambitions. One example of this was that a couple of years ago, AWS built a lot of ground stations to be able to take data from space. De har ju nu lämnat över till KSAB, det norska markstationsbolaget. De har ett samarbete, så i princip så kan man säga. AWS har tagit ett steg tillbaka i sin satsning på rymden. Det innebär väl inte att de inte är intresserade av att hantera rymddatum. Det betyder nog att de inte kommer att kliva ut i rymden. Vi jobbar ju med datorer ute i rymden. Men vi har fortfarande bra relation, men det ser väl inte som att det är kritiskt för oss just nu faktiskt. Vi hade också ett ESA-projekt där, vi kan inte ännu publicera vilket europeiskt bolag det är, It will be made public soon. The agreements have been signed, but have not yet been made public by ESA. We are working with two other companies. One of them is one of the largest European space companies in the ESA project. It concerns future data management in space, but more details will come shortly. Vi har ju en filosofi att vi är ju inte ute efter i första hand utvecklingsfinansiering när det gäller sådana här forskningsprojekt utan vi är intresserade av, vi ser det egentligen nästan som en del av vår säljprocess, vi vill komma nära the big space companies. And sometimes you need to use such projects to be able to get close to them. So you could see that it's a part of our process. So we don't try to get development funding first. Because in general, these projects don't go in rocket speed right away. They can be a bit bureaucratic and slow. It also applies if you were to take Swedish space management projects and such. Nothing to do with them, but we want to keep the pace of development at a higher pace towards the market.

But it can be an important part of creating relationships in some cases.

Some questions about the competition situation. What hinders the major actors from competing with Gödebapt? Of course they can do that. We compete by being faster and better. It's not that we don't have competitors. We have competitors and we have more competitors in the USA than we have in Europe. In Europe we don't have many competitors and we are considered to be number one in Europe in space edge computing. In the US there are some established, so in the US we see ourselves as a challenger, but in Europe we see ourselves as the leading actors. But it is clear that we compete, there is always this make or buy decision, for example at Leonardo, they have of course made a make or buy, and obviously they have made buy decisions here, and that is a sign that we We experience ourselves as competitive by being fast and innovative. Leonardo also wrote in his press release that he wanted to work with innovative companies. Next question, what are the biggest risks and possibilities? If we start with the possibilities, of course, the USA is the biggest market. Now we know that there are barriers to get into the American market. We have still been quite successful as a European space company. But there are barriers, there is a Buy American Act and so on. So there are a number of steps that we have to take, we have to work with them continuously. But the biggest possibility is the European Awakening. And there we also have a good competitive situation as we see. When it comes to risks, yes. We usually talk about that it will sway between quarters. It will continue to do so. The sales cycle is still, even if they have become shorter, as I talked a little about here at Leonardo, they are still quite long. And a little unpredictable. So it will certainly... We have said that it will continue to sway up and down. Underlying, we believe, is rock bottom on the market. But it will not just sway. So that can be seen as a risk. And of course, the competitive situation is advantageous for us in Europe now. But it may not continue to be forever. But right now it looks good. We haven't said the total addressable market in dollars, but we have said it in the number of satellites. I think we presented on a previous report that last year it was about 400 satellites that had been an addressable market for us. Then you have to do the math yourself. The math may not be super difficult, but that was last year. And of course, the number of satellites will increase in the future. Om vi kommer att kunna nå en miljard i omsättningen... Vi har ju inte satt nåt sånt på magasinet. Vi hade ett tillväxtmål, 30-50 % i genomsnitt. Ibland lite högre, ibland lite lägre. Det är väl det vi står kvar vid nu. Det är väl det som är vårt mål. Nånting som jag är speciellt stolt över... For example, the iX10 with JAXA now, they work very well. So it's a big milestone that we've reached TRL 9 for the iX10. Growth and distribution. We've talked a little earlier about the margins when it comes to hardware and software. And then it depends on whether it's a qualification project or a constellation project. Qualifying projects often contain engineering models, such as lab computers. They have lower margins, but when it comes to constellations, they have better flight computers. They have higher margins, as we can see. We usually say that, roughly, over a satellite life cycle, maybe a third of the revenues will come from softwares and two thirds from computers. It depends on which softwares options customers choose, but in that order, you can count on that. And when we take revenues, we take hardware revenues, we take delivery revenues, and softwares revenues we take as annual licenses. So that means maybe two thirds about the delivery, and then a third is distributed to licenses, as it looks right now. Our strategy when it comes to softwares is to add softwares step by step to our scope. We did that, for example, when we built this preprocessing software called Loom in the RIDE conservation recently. It was our first standard software. If we have any components, if we have any bottles on the supply chain, Not in the current situation, and we have also put up a supply chain strategy. You should never say never. You don't know what's going on. But we have put up a supply chain strategy where we are, so to speak, and order components from the suppliers. So we may have a six-month advance and such. Our goal is to be able to deliver a flight data in three months. In those three months, we can't calculate the varying delivery times for components, but we are prognosticating component needs. Right now, it looks like it's not a problem, but you never know. A few years ago, it was a huge problem halfway through, so of course it can happen again.

Let's see if there are any more questions.

In the chat.

The liquidity situation, today we have no plans for any new investment or so, but we see it as a possibility in the future. But of course, things can happen and we also want to make investments, so we have to come back to that, but nothing that we have in our plans right now.

Några mer frågor? Några frågor till Henrik här kanske?

Då tackar vi för oss. Nu fick vi faktiskt en fråga om kompetensförsörjning. That's interesting. Thanks for that question. There is one bottle that is not on the supply chain, and that is actually a bit on the side of the pensioners, and maybe you can think about that, and that is something called FPGA programming, embedded programming, and that is related to the upgrade of the defense industry. FPGA is used a lot for signal saving and the like. Det finns en brist på marknaden på FPGA-ingenjörer och det är ju någonting vi jobbar med just nu så ser det bra ut för oss men det är någonting som vi behöver bevaka kontinuerligt och det skulle jag säga är en oväntad flaska som kommer dyka upp på grund av försvarsökningarna. Vi jobbar mycket med svenska konsultbolag. Vi har en strategi som ligger på ganska högt antal konsulter på något anställda. Kanske 30-20 ungefär. Vi brukar säga att vi är 50 personer, men då är det ungefär 30-35 anställda och sen resten konsulter. Det är för att kunna flexa. Så vi har väldigt bra relation med ett antal konsultbolag som vi jobbar aktivt med hela tiden.

Så vi jobbar för att få resurser via det. Då så tror jag vi stänger och tackar för oss idag.

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