VNV Global AB (publ)

Hi, all. Thank you for joining me in the Global's first quarter 2024 report conference call. On the call today, we have Per Billiard, CEO, Dennis Mohamed, who's part of our investment team, and myself, Björn von Silvers, CFO at the company. As per usual, Per will start with the summary of the quarter and some highlights from his management letter. And after this, we will open up for Q&A. As a reminder, if you want to ask a question, use the Q&A function here on Zoom, and we will try to address your questions towards them. With that short introduction, I'll hand it over to you, Per.

Thank you, Björn, and thanks, everyone, for joining. No, who is it? Dennis, you're doing the slides here. Yeah, so you've seen the reports. It's a slight uptick. We've left the sort of 666 number to a 667 number. It's a slight, slight uptick. We're rounding upwards, but it's an uptick, especially in Swedish crowns, 54 Swedish crowns in a bit, which is up from the end of December, which we're very happy about. But I'll just try to summarize the big things that are going on. uh and uh i think that's you can do that at the next slide um and um the big i think i so the big thing uh during this quarter uh the big thing for us in general right now is to to sell assets uh so that we can pay down the debts that we have and that as we've spoken about for a long time and you know all of you know that we we've had cash for some time now to pay down the June bond. And we've been repurchasing that June bond in the market. And during this quarter, we did sell a portfolio of assets centered around Booksy to Verdane for 52 million bucks. And then there's some earners that can take it up to 58 million bucks. And most of this is closed now. Very, very, very small piece. It's not closed because there's a longer closing period. But that's small. So most of it has closed. And that has allowed us to also start to retire, in essence, retire the debt that's falling due in January 2025. And we did like a structured, organized buyback of that. So we bought back 300 million Swedish and a bit. of those bonds in the market. And the rationale behind that is that simply the price we pay in the market gets us a yield to maturity that's higher than what we get at the bank. So it just makes sense. And we're basically still in the process of selling further assets to completely pay down the debt that matures Yeah, well, during the coming sort of six months, six to nine months, I guess, including the Jan 25 one. And so the current net debt position is 64 million bucks, which is down from 110 at the end of the year. So that's very much in focus. I think we can go back a slide, Dennis. Yeah, that one. Sorry. Yeah. So the transaction with the sale to Verdane, we sold for money now $52 million, something that we had booked at just under $60 million, as this shows. So that's a 12% discount if we get the earn out and we're bullish about that. It's basically no discount and obviously a much, much, much more discount than whatever we trade at. At the time that we announced this, we traded at just under 20. It's gone up a little bit since then, although we're still at a big discount. So thanks. Yeah, I just want to touch upon that. Now we can go back to the next slide, Dennis. Thank you. Other things then during the quarter is that uh, boy, which is a big holding of ours. Um, uh, the third largest now, um, because we've taken it down somewhat, uh, to reflect the value of the company, uh, in a capital rates that they just completed. Uh, so they raised 25 million bucks. Uh, we put in five, uh, this takes the company to cashflow positive, which, which is a very strong position to be in, uh, uh, these days. Um, and, um, Revenues over the past two years has grown 50%. They've reduced costs a lot. They've halved costs. And this has all sort of expedited them to become profitable. So there is, in essence, EBITDA positive last year. There, in essence, will be EBIT positive this year. So very much in the right direction. So we can talk more about this if anyone has any questions, but that's a big thing for us during the quarter to complete that. We're very happy with Voi. And I think as most of you who are based here in Europe, I mean, Voi is present in a hundred or so cities in Europe and the European market is really sort of narrowing down to two key players, which is Voi and Lime. Certainly those of you who are based here in Scandinavia see that those two operators are the ones that are still standing, offer a great product, and the people who've looked at this industry from a distance and seen that, oh boy, there's a lot of competition here, how can this ever make money, sort of sees now that it's fewer players, stronger players, on the license. And I think, I think people are starting to, and there will be more to come as these companies, you know, look back at profitability and has a history of profitability. It'll be clear that this is really, this is really key piece and not, not only a key piece in European cities, transportation networks, but also, you know, an important piece of logistical transportation. That's also potentially very profitable. So, other things is uh yeah um get as we mentioned here uh because it's in a messy part of the world uh and despite sort of the horrible violence that's going on in that region uh around the sort of economic centers of israel business is fairly if you can call it but at least in economic terms, fairly back to normal. And they rebounded to 95% of what we saw before October 7th, which is, of course, from an economic standpoint, very good. And they've also served, you know, Get has become the player at the Ben Gurion airport. That's the, you want to take a taxi from there, you use Get. It's sort of a big thing there. So probably not many of you have traveled there since October 7th, but it's working very, very well. So as hopefully things start to calm down there, that airport will be more and more busy, and that will be a big contributor to get going forward. So very happy about that. The other thing was BlaBlaCar. I think all of you saw we certainly sort of – helped spread it. They did a press release where they announced 100 million euro financing, which is something that they don't usually do. We are very happy that the company is starting to sort of share more news and information like the ones they did because it helps us give you guys an insight into the company that's unusual for private companies and it's probably more usual for companies that are that are on route to becoming public. Now, as all of you know, a blah, blah car has talked about going down the public route at some point in time. And, you know, from a distance, I think we can all say that this, them starting to do this kind of thing is a good precursor to something like that happening. the credit facilities to support them doing M&A. And we're very excited about M&A opportunities in this space. They also took the opportunity to sort of talk about their financials, announcing a 253 million euro in revenue, which is up some 30% year on year. And perhaps more importantly, that they are EBITDA positive and And in contrast to Voi, EBITDA is the level that matters here. There's nothing that happens below EBITDA in terms of assets to be depreciated or etc. So that's very strong. This company is doing super well. So that's like an overview of what we think of, you know, there's lots of stuff that's gone on at VMV over the quarter, but those will be the highlights, I think it's fair to say. And now Björn is going to take us through some more details in terms of the numbers. So over to you, Björn.

Thank you, Per. Yes, here we have a snapshot of the balance sheet for quarter ending. And we have an investment portfolio of some 60 crowns per share, additional cash and cash equivalents of 3.7 crowns per share. That gets us to a total investment portfolio, including cash of almost 64 crowns per share. On that, we have borrowings of negative dividends. nine crowns per share uh that gets us to the 54 first 54 crown nav roughly uh today that represents a discount or the share price today represent roughly this comes from 55 percent to that And as Per said, the NAV in SEK over the quarter was up roughly 6% and flat in dollar terms. If we move to the next slide, Dennis, I'll just note some highlights on the three largest assets and the movements of our cash and net debt during the quarter. Blablacar, our largest holding, was up roughly 9% during the quarter, primarily driven by slightly increased adjusted peer multiple and also slightly increased fully diluted ownership following the cancellation of certain employee incentive pools that no longer exist. The Blablacar position represents roughly 25 crowns per share, so around 45% of the NAV as per March 31st, so our largest holding by far. Again, get this down roughly 3% during the quarter, also driven primarily by a slightly lower peer multiple. Although the situation in the region remains volatile, we know that per mentioned, Gett have recovered now to 95% of pre-war levels. And by quarter ending, Gett represents roughly 7.6 crowns per share as of March 31st. Both BlaBla and Gett are valued on our typical or regular model. Boy, on the other hand, was moved the most during the quarter. It's down roughly 21% during the quarter. And that's essentially driven by the fact that we moved the valuation from previous model to now transaction. We invested $5 million as part of a $25 million new equity round and also converted our previously held convertible, which amounted to approximately $90 million, which gets us to the $24 million here in the table. Voi represents 6.5 pounds per share as of March 31st. In aggregate, these three largest holdings represent roughly 39 pounds per share and just about 70% of our NAV. During the quarter, we also closed, as Per mentioned, the Verdane portfolio transaction partially. We sold Booksy, James Edition, and Carla. Cash and cash equivalents at the end of the quarter was $46 million plus an additional $2 million in liquidity management investments. The driver of the movement in cash or non-movement in cash, if you will, was that total proceeds from sales that were primarily driven by this Verdane transaction. The partial close there had proceeds of sale of $50 million. And at the same time, we also repurchased bonds during the quarter to the order of 350 million crowns, which gives us this ending cash balance of $46 million. And given these movements, net debt, if you move to the next slide, Dennis, was down 2%. from roughly $110 million last quarter to $64 million now. Correspondingly, borrowing was down 152 to 110, driven by these repurchases and also some FX effects. With that, I'll hand it back to Per. We'll flick through some more slides before we go to Q&A.

Yeah. you'll be familiar with the structure of our portfolio, blah, blah, cars become a little bit bigger voice going down to the third space. But, uh, I think Bjorn has touched upon all this. If, if to briefly, briefly touch upon the other holdings, housing anywhere, which is like an Airbnb, but for long mid, mid to long-term rentals is, uh, is, is, is, is, is a fascinating holding that we're increasingly active in. Um, um, and, um, And so that fits what we do very well. Newman is this digital health platform for males, for men, centered in the UK. It's doing very well as well. Breadfast, QuickCommerce in Egypt. BukaDirect, all of you Swedes will know. Very excited about that. We've sold Booksy now, but through Booksy in Poland. That is, we know how excellent it looks like, and BookaDirect is really en route to do that. to become, to assume those kind of levels and also has a lot of Hemnet-like characteristics to it. So very excited about that. Basoko, this B2B marketplace in Africa, that's part of the consolidation. um effort now uh that that that is that is near term and hungry Panda is like a fedora but for Chinese communities outside of China all those companies are doing well and we're very excited we find another time to go through the remainder which is quite a few names but that are too small to talk about now but um importantly if the next slide what we also I want to share with you is that how over this past year really a lot of work has been done at the shareholder level but then sort of inspiring or getting managements to go about getting the companies to become profitable so Over this past year, the part of the portfolio that's become EBITDA positive has grown like this. The reason why we sort of gray in void here is because whilst they are EBITDA positive, they still own and depreciate these scooters. So we should really talk about EBIT positive, which they have. Well, they did achieve during a quarter, during 2003, I think it was the third quarter or something like that, that they were EBIT positive, which is fantastic. But then over the whole year, they're yet to become EBIT positive, which is something that we hope they will be able to achieve this year. But the overall trend here is that our portfolio is profitable and then also controls its own destiny. And then finally, two dates for you, which is that we hope to see you on the 15th of May, when we have our AGM. And that's at 10 o'clock. For those of you who are based here in Sweden, hope to see you in the room. And for those of you not based in Sweden, also hope to see you in the room. But otherwise, I think we can follow that by other means. But Maybe more importantly, we have our capital market. We have a capital market day again this year, which is this time in Stockholm, Sweden. And sort of we're, you know... Not the center of the world, so I hope if you can't join physically, then this will be streamed in a live fashion so you can follow these presentations by Zoom or on YouTube, I think it is, as we do them during that day. And they will be available afterwards as well. So two dates for you. And yeah, I think that concludes what we sort of prepared for you. But we're very happy to sort of take any questions. And Björn has, I think, walked you through how that works. And I think we have some questions, right, that have come up.

Yeah, exactly. And again, please use the Q&A function or raise your hand here to allow a question. We can start with some written questions that we received. You know, or you write in your management report that you will work on additional exits. Can you provide any additional color on if you expect those to happen during the remainder of the year and to further strengthen your financial position?

Yeah, the expectation is for sure and immediately that I say for sure is that I'm confident that we'll be able to conclude exits of a size that's enough and maybe more to pay off the debt and also get them into the net cash position. But of course, one has to throw in the cabbage that nothing's done until it's done. But we've been hard at work doing exactly this for quite some time now. So yeah, that's the expectation for sure. And I think there's also a question that has been written here that talks about if there are new rounds in our companies. And I think of the major ones, it was only Voi, which is complete, and we don't expect a new round at Voi. really ever. There has been some activity in some other companies too, which has been done at levels which are fine and we've been happy to be diluted at. So there's some stuff going on. But in terms of impacting our overall situation, In terms of liquidity, et cetera, we don't expect anything major to happen anytime soon.

Thank you. We also have, I think, a live question from Barath that I'll try to allow him to speak here. So please go ahead, Barath. You are now live. Can you hear me well? We can hear you a little bit low.

All right. I hope now it's a bit better. Thank you for taking my question. Just on Voie, can you speak about the future revenue trajectory of the company? I appreciate that the increased regulatory scrutiny, consolidation in the market has certainly helped some winners come out, for example, Voie. But just on the future trajectory, I would like to know a little bit more. And on the... just so that I get a better handle for the demand for e-scooters and e-bikes in the medium term, which is one of the questions we keep getting from investors. And also when you say EBIT positive in 2024, you also expect free cash flow to be positive as well. Thanks.

Let me answer a little bit high level. And then we have Dennis with us here, who really is an expert. Dennis was, I think, the first or second employee at Void. That's how we got to know him and started. really helps out at Voi in every sense. But yeah, I think, I think we, you know, while it's difficult to guide for sort of the near future, the next couple of years in sort of any detail, then people will be upset with us. But I think we, we see this business, you know, not getting to a 60, 70% a bit, you know, net margin kind of business that you find in classifieds and maybe blah, blah car. And, you know, like the book of direct kind of situations who really sort of gets to that. I mean, this industry is subject to some competition. It's not the winner takes everything. So, but we do see this, you know, in a mature state being a 20 to 30% EBIT kind of margin business. And, you know, so that will be sort of the slightly longer term sort of kind of margin that we see at the company. uh and uh and yeah the the other thing is that um uh there there there is demand here and there is an increasing demand uh overall uh and uh i mean there was there was a lot of you know this industry is only five years old right or or five and a bit maybe but very young and there's been you know the the um the, hey, this is a new thing. Those users have found it and used it. But now it's, you know, the people who are starting to use it as a way to get to work in, you know, on a sort of average basis in all these European cities is growing. But it's not like, you know, it's not the dramatic sort of swings and growth that you saw when this was a really new thing. But now it's growing and there's a lot of room to grow. but it doesn't give you... It's maybe not 50% per year, if you see what I mean. But what I would say also, and then on the cash flow side of things, is that this company getting to have it positive is... is strong and that of course means cash flow positive. But what this industry is also facing now that when it's becoming profitable and when it's also clearer picture on who the players are and the competitive pressures, I think you'll see this industry like any transportation network also being funded by debt. And that's really sort of coming together. So long, maybe too long. And I would also say, Bharat, thank you for the question. And you're the first ever who we've been able to sort of take into the room and ask a question live like this. So congratulations for that. But Dennis, is there anything we should add to Bharat's questions in terms of details?

I think you touched upon most of the important stuff, but what I can add is first on the demand side, it is clear that same-store sales is going up quite significantly across cities for Voi and for competitors. We saw, for instance, one of the cases of Voi as we press released, they grew revenues 50% of the past two years. Lime, which is the largest competitor really globally, they shared that they grew last year 32% on top line. So the industry for sure is growing I think that's just one data point to put out there. The second one in terms of profitability is, you know, looking at 2023 for Voi, which is really the year transitioning from high per growth, if you will, to profitability. They improved EBITDA margins by 25 percentage points. They improved EBIT margin by 35 percentage points. They doubled gross profit. So the improvements are probably more significant. more clear on looking further down the P&L. And then lastly, adding to Per's point there, Voi did share in their press release that they not only raised the $25 million of debt, but also there was an additional funding through asset-backed debt to fund vehicles coming into 2024. So that should also obviously help fuel growth into 2024. As we've said publicly before, coming into 2023, the company didn't invest in new CapEx. So the growth that they have achieved in 23 was with a smaller fleet, really showing that demand for the service is growing. But coming into 24, they have actually invested into CapEx. So that should also help fuel growth for the coming year and a bit. I think that's it.

Good. Thank you. Thank you for that. May I just ask one more, if that's all right?

Okay. Okay.

On the discount that you mentioned in your report that you apply for valuation of GET, that's the discount you apply to the peer multiples. Is there any commentary you can provide around that? And maybe the second part of the question is generally around the state of the capital markets activity currently. Is there, what do you think is happening? Is it improving? Like there's been some green shoots, messages from number of people, number of banks, private equity, et cetera. Is there anything you can add on to that? Thank you.

John, do you wanna tackle the first of Bharat's questions?

On the valuation on GAT specifically, what we could say is that the model is essentially the same as previous quarter and that the discount we apply to the peer multiple is continued to be elevated due to the macroeconomic environment of their core market. Otherwise, it's essentially the same as previous quarters.

And yes, just the color on capital markets activity is yes, we definitely see the green shoot that you described is something that we can adhere to. I mean, just the fact that we've sold the portfolio, you know, it's $50 million in a bit, and that we haven't done it yet, but we're confident to sell something of an equal size or, in fact, much more, I think speaks to that. So that wasn't possible earlier, but is now. So I think that speaks to sort of capital markets activities and unlisted assets overall really picking up, not for every asset, but for something. And then I think there is, should we do some, I'll just, I'll just try to tackle a few of the questions that you guys have punched into the keyboard. And then I think there was, maybe that's gone. There's a lot of talk about, a lot of questions about buybacks, yes, and I did, you know, we're clear of all the covenants. Technically, we have to, the board has to decide upon a buyback program and then announce that and then we can go. So that's something that's on, you can say on the to-do list, but, you know, that has to happen. But but yeah we haven't been clear of the covenants uh enough to pay to buy back stock previously we are now very happy about that uh because i think as most of you know i mean over the past 10 years or so we've essentially done buybacks to the order of 750 million dollars so buybacks is something that's very very clear and very close to our hearts And I think I sort of generally speaking, I'd also say that whilst there is activity and investments that are, you know, that, you know, that are getting done, they're getting done around the level of RNAV. uh and uh but at the discount that we trade at it's just very hard to find anything that compares as well as our stock uh would do so so so whilst i i'm humble about that there's some sort of practicality that has to sort of happen and hence we can't buy back stock just this afternoon then we uh then, you know, something that's very, very close to heart. So, uh, that, that, that's, uh, I think that's what we can say about, uh, buybacks right now. Um, Yeah, I referred to a company with Hemnet potential. That would be what I mean is Boka Direkt, which is a household name here in Sweden. It's a software for beauty industry and for gyms, etc. And very similar to Booksy that we did sell. And we... And so apart from being of the same sort of household brand that Hemnet is, it's also a business that's been around for a long time and that has quite a bit of low-hanging fruit ahead of itself to sort of pick in order to sort of improve the business overall for customers and for shareholders alike. Very much akin to how Hemnet was established. um uh was um uh well you know uh you know rose uh in in value of uh over over the years that we held it and and and also afterwards for sure uh so so very very keen on that and again we've seen how great it looks like so we really think the book can assume those um that kind of levels so um so that that would be the company um Yeah, there's been a lot of talk in Israeli press about Get being sold. I'm sure you appreciate it's nothing we can comment on. So I'm afraid we can't give you much more color on that. I don't know, Björn, do you want to just touch upon the two questions that refers to... stuff in the valuation peer groups? Or there's one question on that. Is that something we can talk about or...

Yeah, sure. No, Janne, I think the question refers to that during the quarter. Some notable peers of ours have performed really well. Uber, Airbnb, etc. is up 30% during the quarter. I mean, the general comment there is that... As we see in public markets, the larger names and the likable names have performed really well over the last couple of quarters. Our peer groups include companies in addition to these well-known tech companies, of course. which brings it down further. And then also, I think it's fair to assume that our models, where we try to find the most appropriate peer group and then apply a relevant discount to that there are some elasticity in our models, especially on the upside. And given... When there are large movements in the public markets, we do tend to look an extra time at our model to see if it's time to recalibrate it, etc. So that would be the general comment on those models and our valuation approach in general. And in addition to that, I see that we have another live question from Sergei at GAMCO that I invite now to ask. Sergei, you should be live now. So if you have a question, please go ahead.

Great. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. Great. Thank you. Maybe two questions. One on the buybacks. If you could maybe elaborate more. So obviously your priority over the next six to nine months is to retire debt and get into next net cash position. But to what degree do you believe you'll have capacity to supplement it with buybacks, obviously, with the stock trading at such a discount? And my second question is, assuming you get to the net cash position, what kind of a level of annual investment would you like to maintain going forward over medium term to comfortably pursue investment strategy.

Yeah, no, you're right, Sergei. Our priority number one now is to buy back the debt, which we have done already, and to do that to the extent that we can retire the debt. That's priority number one. But to the extent that we can sort of see on the horizon that there's also cash left beyond that, then what I meant to say was that buybacks is very important. It's very close to heart, basically. But one thing at a time, etc. And the comment that I made earlier and also in the report is that at least we're clear in terms of the covenants now to buy back stock. Yeah. So that's a hurdle that we've had in front of us, now that's past us, and that's a good step in the right direction. And then we have to sort of manage liquidity for buybacks of debt, which we've already done. But in terms of new investments, we find it very hard to find anything that compares well to our own stock, which trades at this discount to NAV. So the way and also on, you know, when we are at net cash, etc, what we don't really think about a certain number of to allocate new investments every year, we're more optimistically driven. And some years there are no investments and some years there are more investments. So it's not that our board tells us, now you should do investment for... $50 million this year. Otherwise you're not doing your job. It's more, we, we look at, you know, I would typically say we look at, you know, something comes one thing a day comes across our desks. And then maybe we work on stuff, something, you know, we, we take something and we analyze it more like becomes once a month. And then some happens, some don't, but right now we do that. I mean, we, we, there's tons of stuff that's coming across our desk, but we, we yet to find something, uh, uh that you know that really sort of is a real alternative to our own stock thank you thank you for the question um yeah There's a question in the chat here on the portfolio that's EBITDA positive. Booksy was EBITDA positive, so Booksy out affects that negatively.

I think net it's a one or two percentage point decrease because on the other side we have Blab has grown as a share of the total portfolio which is obviously profitable so the movements are minor I would say

Exactly. So the point I was going to make also, and thanks to Dennis for clarifying that, but it's that the figures that you saw in the slide I had is, books is gone already, right? Bjorn, there's a question on Swivel, which had a sort of a dramatic jump up from a low level. Is there...

Yeah, no, I think our view there, and just a reminder, so we're not at the board of Swivel, not an insider at the company. So the company, of course, given all the volatility, got behind on their filings in 2023. But then in December last year, they filed their first half 2023 financial report in late December. And that seems to be the starting point of this recovery. But given the increase and the and velocity of the recovery. I'm sure I'm reading the question here. It's also partly driven by speculation, I would assume. But we hope that the company will file its full 2023 report here this spring as per SEC timelines and then hope that the company Recovers both from an operational standpoint and then obviously in terms of share price performance. So that's the short answer on Swivel. I saw that there was another question on valuation that I can touch briefly on whether we value companies on revenue multiple, EBITDA multiple or gross profit multiple. I think as we mentioned in the last report, we believe now as the company is maturing overall, we will move more from revenue multiple-based valuation models to EBITDA-based valuation models. The question also here refers to gross profit. We tend to think that given the There's some variation in how gross profit is defined among different companies. So that's a more difficult peer group to construct to get really good like-for-like numbers on what's in that gross profit. So I think EV revenue will hold until we deem it relevant to move to an EBITDA multiple. directly and that assessment we do continuously quarter by quarter and as companies mature now over this year and certainly next more additional portions of the portfolio will get to that EBITDA multiples valuation models which in all essence should be a more robust proxy for the fair value estimate or

Great.

Sorry.

Go ahead, Dennis.

I think we've gone from SCB on what the milestones are for Voi to achieve this year, to become EBIT positive regardless of this year or in the coming, call it 12 months or so. But I think the first one there really is to continue to win tenders. Voi has a 27% tendered market share as per Q1, which is buying for leading in Europe, but to continue to push that and increase that is priority number one. With tenders come higher quality revenues. And essentially, we have higher utilization and higher pricing power in those cities. So that is number one. The second one is obviously to continue to improve margins. Part of that is to continue driving operational excellence. There's a bunch of initiatives at Voi in place. They're also starting to use AI in certain areas, for instance, for fleet optimization, demand prediction, et cetera. So that is one thing to improve the gross profit margin from roughly 50% this year and And they continue improving it into 24 and 25. But then also, as you have probably seen in the media, to do this with less personnel and less G&A. So they've reduced costs, they've reduced overheads by roughly 50% in the last two years. And the good news here is that if you look at Q1 of 24, they've managed to grow top line and improve margins across the board, despite having a smaller team. On the tender side of things, I can mention that they have won. I think the big ones are really Oslo this quarter, and there's also tenders coming up in Germany where they've started winning, which is great. And the big tenders for 2024 include Liverpool, you have Düsseldorf, Antwerp, and Sevilla are a couple of them that is in the pipeline that we know of currently. But that will obviously become larger as we get further into the year. I hope that answers the question from SCB.

Good. Thank you, Dennis. Thank you. I think we've touched upon most questions here, unless I missed someone. If I have, please shoot an email and we'll try to address it offline. And other than that, Per, if you have any final remarks before we end the call.

Thank you, everyone, for joining. Really good to see all these questions come through. I hope we've answered most of them. And also, thanks for coming in live to ask questions. I think that improves the overall format. So I hope to see you at the AGM and also in some format on the Catholic Marcus Day, which is the 11th of June. Otherwise, I think we're due to do this exercise again in mid-July. Summer seems a long way away when we look out the window here in Sweden, but it's coming, I hear.