AB Volvo (publ)

So good morning and welcome to this fourth quarter press conference. Today we will listen to the presentations by Martin and Mats, and then follow up with a Q&A session. So with that, I hand over to Martin.

Thank you, Johan, for that. And also welcome from my side to everyone here in the room and also online. Great to have you here. First and foremost, I will come back to the full year 24 later. But as we also conclude the fourth quarter, I would like to start by thanking everyone that has been involved. It has been an interesting year, to say the least. So big thanks to customers, business partners and colleagues for continued good cooperation and work. And we are still in uncertain times, so strong and close relations are more important than ever. As expected, the normalization of demand continued into a replacement-driven market across many of Volvo Group's major segments also during Q4. But we also saw a momentum in order intake turning book-to-bill positive for Group Trucks, VC and Volvo Penta in Q4. We have continued prioritized high quality in the business by focusing on our customers and the service operation, continuous volume flexibility in the industrial system, cost control combined with commercial discipline and price management. Specifically for volume flexibility, we are in a good place for almost all markets. And the only exception is Group Trucks North America, where we continue to have more costs related to specific situations. The first one during the quarter, we had a continuous one, but the first one was related to the devastating effect related to the storm Helen that, apart from human suffering, caused supply issues and disruptions mainly in western North Carolina and thereby losses of volumes in the beginning of the quarter. Those volumes have been gradually recovered during the quarter with fantastic efforts, I have to say, by the complete supply chain internally and externally. But, of course, it comes with extra costs. And secondly, the continuous ramp-up of the, as you did see on the movie here, the all-new VNL, where extra resources and thereby costs are needed to cope with introduction in parallel with normal production. Planned for, but still the case. And thirdly, as we talked about during quarter three, the impact coming from cab supply for Mac as reported in quarter three, as I said, which continued into quarter four, but improvements are now stepwise visible. So that is very encouraging also for given the order board that we have for Mac. And in total, the specific events for group trucks North America affected the global trucks margin negatively on still a rather high level, but was somewhat lower than what we reported for quarter three. But more importantly, and I think that is worthwhile reiterating, it has been the right priority for the future. Really going through now the ramp up, getting these fantastic products out to the market, and also seeing that we are capable of really getting the volumes into place here. And the start of production of the all-new VNL in North America is very important, of course, because that is a future platform that we have invested considerably into. And that is for North America over the last five, six years. It's materializing now as an introduction, but that goes also across the board with R&D investments in new technology products and services combined with the digitalization. And just to finish off with the North American introduction also, I mean, very clear to achieve the ambitions that we have in market shares as well. But if we go into the figures here and summarize the quarter, net sales declined 6%, 138 billion on the back of still softer markets and lower volumes combined with negative FX or currency of 1.1 billion. Adjusted operating income come in on the level of 14 billion, corresponding to a margin of 10.1%. And we finished 24 with high deliveries and release of working capital, giving a very, very strong operating cash flow of 24.3 billion for the quarter, and resulting in a financial position of 86 billion. Return on capital employed in industrial operations remained strong at almost 36% and earnings per share was 5.28 krona per share then. So all in all, we summarize another solid result and resilient quarter thanks to great cooperation with customers and business partners. And foremost, a day like this, dedicated work by our colleagues around the globe. So thank you. Then coming into volume development, total truck deliveries declined 11% in quarter four, with heavy-duty deliveries holding up relatively better. It was minus 6%. and for construction equipment deliveries were down 5%, Volvo coming down 23% and SDLG increasing 20%. When it comes to the electrification progress and the transformation with different uncertainties related to the electrification, underlying demand has been slowing down in some of the core markets and the switch over to zero emission transport is still driven by early adopters. Still, as you can see, orders for fully electric vehicles and machines increased with 62%, but it was in the quarter mainly driven by Renault Trucks light commercial vehicles and STLG machines, primarily then for China. Deliveries increased with 11%, supported mainly also their STLG machines for China. But I think it's important in summary to say that despite the slowdown, we continue to push also in our core markets, which is reflected in our high market shares for medium and heavy duty trucks. Around 70% in Europe for the full year of 2024, even if the volumes in total are still too low. But it will come. When it comes to sales development, on the back of the lower volumes, vehicle and machine sales declined. 7% adjusted for currency. Truck sales declined 5% on 11% lower volumes. On the CE side, sales of machines were down 19% driven by continued decline in Europe and North America. And sales for buses were down 12% on the back of, primarily actually because we have good activity levels, very strong comparison from previous years. As you know, it's a little bit more volatile between the quarters for buses. And for Volvo Penta, despite a drop of 22% in volumes, their sales were only down by 9%. One part of that is the positive mix, more heavy energy also. Not at least for the energy transition, but we will come back to that. Service sales, we continue our focus on services, as we have talked about for many years now, and have flat development year over year for the fourth quarter adjusted for currency. However, and I think I mean excluding Arcus that was divested during the course of the year, service sales grew currency adjusted with 4% year-over-year and continue to show resilience in a softer market, generally speaking. And efforts to increase service contract penetration and other services will continue also to pay off step-by-step. We see that in our portfolio. Rolling 12 months, we had service sales of 130 billion SEK. So all in all, another solid result from services and a very good achievement here. And that journey will continue step by step. Group news then. During the quarter, first and foremost, the group hosted and many of you were present that are here in the room but also online. Capital Markets Day in Virginia, United States, with a theme geared for growth, of course, related to the opportunities when it comes to the underlying growth in our sector, but also the transformational elements of that, and outlining our future opportunities combined with the key strategic levers. Another important event was that together with Diamond Truck, we have signed a binding agreement to establish a joint venture to develop a software-defined vehicle platform. for the heavy-duty sector. The aim of the new company named Cortura is to set up an industry standard and to offer a brand and application-agnostic software product and platform also to other commercial vehicles or industrial equipment OEMs. And that is important because in order to really get enough volumes for hardware and software development and to make that a cutting-edge innovation and also to innovate, on the edge there, it is important to join forces. And this is an innovation milestone for the industry, as we said, and the company will be headquartered in Gothenburg, Sweden. On the truck side, Volvo Autonomous Solutions has, together now with DHL, started autonomous hub-to-hub operations in Texas, United States, on public roads. And the operation is enabled by the purpose-built Volvo VNL Autonomous in combination with the Aurora virtual driver. And this milestone marks a critical phase now in validating the full ecosystem required for autonomous transport at scale, where hub-to-hub is, of course, the key focus to start with. During the validation phase there are safety drivers on board, but this is a very important step now to materialize the great benefits of this type of technology. And the second big news is that the European Test Organization, Euro NCAP, for the first time ever has assessed the safety of heavy-duty trucks. And the Volvo Group's best-selling models in Europe, the Volvo FM, the Volvo FH and Renault T-Series are ranked number 1, 2, 3 respectively in the test, which of course is very encouraging but more so important. Safety is the top priority for our customers and I have to say deeply ingrained into our Group's DNA. This recognition from Euro NCAP marks a significant and proud accomplishment by our colleagues and business partners, and of course in particular our engineers. Coming down to market environment for Europe, our forecast for 2025 is unchanged at 290,000 units on the back of a market driven primarily by replacements, and that we have seen an increased share of fleets. However, and that is important, we see early signs that retail customers are starting to move. Also for North America, our full year 2025 forecast is unchanged at 300,000 units, and we expect some demand tailwind in the second half of 2025, driven by expected pre-buys ahead of emission legislation changed for 2027. Brazil, the market is expected to normalize back to the long-term trend line, so 90,000 units is estimated for 2025, and that is unchanged in relation to what we said in Q3 as well. India, market expected at 370,000 units in 2025, minus 10,000 in relation to previous forecast. And the more significant adjustment we do on China is not expanding as previously expected, and the forecast is revised to move sideways versus 24. So the new forecast is at 710,000 units, which is 110,000 lower than we actually had in the forecast in relation to Q3 reporting. Truck book-to-bill then. Interesting news, right? We did see an order momentum turning book-to-bill positive in Q4. Important, of course. Specifically for medium and heavy-duty trucks, book-to-bill in Q4 was 106%, and for 12-month rolling then coming up to 93%. The European book-to-bill in Q4 of 102% was in balance, but it is worth noting that the order intake Year-over-year for heavy duty and medium duty increased with 68% to almost 25,000 units in Q4. And the North American book-to-bill was 124% for the quarter with both Mack and Volvo contributing. South America, Asia in balance while Africa and Oceania continued to deliver out of the order book. Then when it comes to market shares, in Europe we had solid and good performance for the year both for Volvo and Renault with a combined market share of 27%. For electric vehicles, the two brands kept their leading position with over 70% combined market share. In North America, Volvo and Mac had stable combined shares of 15% for the full year despite delivery problems throughout the year. And some of them we have now structurally addressed as we have talked about before. In Brazil, Volvo remains in the market leading position with almost a 24% share. And in Australia, Volvo and Mack combined had a share of 24%. Construction equipment. Maybe you did see the movie here before we started. First and foremost, in quarter four, when we talk about news, we continue to roll out products in the largest product portfolio, overhauling decades of construction equipment. For example, new excavators in Europe and Asia, and specifically in some of the key segments here. And in January, or to be more precise, yesterday, in Braås, Småland, Sweden, an updated range of the industry-leading articulated hauler range, as you can see here, was launched, including one completely new model, the A50, which is very important because we are strong on the heavy side here, and we will reinforce that because we are now entering a model between the A45 and the A60, so that will further reinforce our World leading plus 40% market share, global market share in these segments. Market environment, Europe, we have continued to see signs that the downward correction also in Europe for construction equipment is stabilizing and guide 25 to a flat market on the back of positive signs from dealers and customers. That is unchanged also from previous forecast so far. Also for North America, we keep our forecast unchanged with minus 5% as midpoint in relation to 24. And for South America and Asia, excluding China, also we forecast an unchanged flat development. In China, we increase somewhat the 24, 5 forecast up to plus 5% as midpoint in relation to 24. Book-to-bill, pretty much the same story here. Volvo CE showed growth in book-to-bill with 105% in Q4, and for 12 months rolling, book-to-bill was 95%. European book-to-bill improved to 138% for the quarter. North American book-to-bill was improving to 93% for Q4, after also a third quarter that was very low and was impacted by destocking and cautious order intake. And South America had destocking with boot-to-build at 77% while Africa, Oceania and Africa were in balance. Of the buses, quarter four Volvo buses received an order for 46 electric buses from Transdev in the Netherlands. Of course, that is a very important order in itself, but it also marks a very important shift here. Now we are gradually leveraging the new business model in Europe with Volvo chassis combined with bodies from select bodybuilder partner, but where Volvo bus team still delivering and serving the customer as a whole. Book-to-bill in the quarter was 76% on the back of very strong order comparisons from 23. But overall, a continued good demand for coaches. And Volvo Buses had a very strong year, and I would like to extend my appreciation to the whole team for the strong structural improvements over the last years that have taken place, which is, of course, very important. If we go down to Penta, Penta revealed the expansion of its existing docking system also to boats with DPI drives in addition to the IPS drives or pods. Another thing, data centers and expansion of that across the globe is driving demand for power generation gensets, which is supportive for Penta's mix towards larger engines. And generally speaking, the energy transition as such holds great opportunities for Penta moving forward, both for power generation, but also for energy storage solutions. Book-to-bill improved to 136% in Q4 and to 94% 12 months rolling. And also Volvo Penta concluded a very strong year with the best Q4 ever. And, of course, that is good in itself. But I think it's more important also to state that that is showing that Penta today is a different company. It is a company that are standing on two or I should say three legs, marine, industrial, both industrial oil speed and industrial power generation. And as many of you know that the quarter four has typically been a sign that it was more one-legged. And now we are seeing that it is a company with several opportunities and great growth opportunities. So great job done by the team here. Financial services. Quarter four, new business volumes reached $35.6 billion. That was plus 5% currency adjusted. And this was a quarterly record, as a matter of fact. And with the strong sales, BFS continued to grow the credit portfolio and with also improving penetration levels, that is important. The 12 months rolling penetration reached 29% and that was 2% better or 2 percentage points better compared to last year. And the portfolio performance continued to be good with customer delinquencies stabilizing at average business cycle levels. So a well managed portfolio and growing business. So by that Mats I leave the floor to you to Go through the financials.

Great. Thanks, Martin. So, let's look into the financials now. Overall, we continue to execute on the all-now-perform and transform strategy. We maintain earnings resilience and deliver an all-time high operating cash flow in the quarter. And this is why we're continuing to invest in our future business growth as well. Looking into the details now, starting with the net sales. Price level for new vehicles remains stable with no significant carryover effect from last year. However, we still see a positive price realization on our service business. Net sales decreased by 6% on a currency-adjusted basis compared to last year. European volumes declined with sales coming down nearly 12% when adjusted to currency and Darcy's divestment. The decline is mainly due to lower volumes in truck and construction equipment. In North America, sales experienced a slight increase of 0.5% on a currency adjusted basis. And this was despite lower market activity for construction equipment. South America continued to perform strongly during the fourth quarter with net sales that marked an outstanding plus 26% FX adjusted compared to last year. This was mainly driven by group truck sales. The other regions experienced declining sales both in trucks and machines. Overall FX was 1.1 billion negative, driven by the Brazilian currency that depreciated by 14% versus the CET. And this gave a negative FX impact on sales of close to 2 billion in the quarter. Operating margin. The adjusted operating income for the group was 14 billion, with an adjusted operating margin of 10.1%. In Q4, earnings remained strong, supported by favorable price realization of services, while the downward trend in material cost had a positive year-over-year impact. It didn't fully compensate for the effects from reduced volume, unfavorable brand mix within construction equipment, and the additional manufacturing cost for trucks in North America. And this was related to the supply constraints and the all V&L ramp-up. These additional manufacturing costs are gradually fading. The ongoing transformation activities require significant investments. R&D spending increased by 1.4 billion in the quarter. Gross spending was seasonally high in the fourth quarter of 2024 and is expected to balance out to be slightly above the average for the 2024 spending. The net capitalization effect in the quarter was positive at 800 million. Guidance on net capitalization for the full year 2025 is positive at approximately 3 billion. Strict cost control remains in place, reflected by the stable trend in other fixed costs. Other is positive thanks to better performance in joint ventures compared to last year. FX had no significant impact on the quarter at the adjusted operating income level, and we expect the effect from transaction exposure to be neutral for the full year 2025, and we don't provide any guidance on the full 2025 currency effect on earnings. Cash flow, then. We generate an all-time high operating cash flow in the fourth quarter at 24.3 billion SEK. Mainly driven by good working capital management where we have been successful in execution of several activities reducing inventories with about 9 billion SEK in the quarter. This combined with a solid result brought us to mark a new record for the Volvo Group when it comes to the cash flow. Return on capital employed trends slightly lower at 35.8% on a rolling 12-month basis, while the net financial position improved to close to 86 billion, driven by record cash flow generation in the fourth quarter. Moving into the truck side. The decreased FX adjusted net sales for group trucks of 4% were driven by lower volumes and flat price effect on new vehicles. The lower adjusted operating income and adjusted operating margin were mainly driven by generally lower volume, high R&D investments, and manufacturing costs impacted by the disturbances in North America and by the extra cost efforts to execute on deliveries. Good performance was maintained through effective price realization of service, reduced material costs, and enhanced results from joint ventures. FX had a negative impact of 0.5 billion SEK in the quarter, and this was driven by the Brazilian currency. The extra cost in North America related to the hurricane and the ramp-up of the all-new V&L remained in the fourth quarter, but continues to gradually improve. Construction equipment. FX's net sales decreased by 17% due to lower volumes and negative brand and product mix. Adjusted operating income decreased by 0.7 billion SEK to 2.6 billion. The negative impact from higher volumes in China and lower volumes in Europe and North America were partly mitigated by reduced R&D expenses. The adjusted operating income margin reached 11.8%, and there was a positive impact from currency on earnings of 0.6 billion SEK, mainly driven by depreciation of the U.S. dollar versus the SEK. Moving into buses then, and as Martin mentioned as well, this is the best fourth quarter ever when it comes to adjusted operating income and the margin for buses. So great work done by the bus team then. Looking into the details then. FX adjusted net sales decreased by 10%, mainly driven by lower volumes. Adjusted operating income more than doubled from 323 million SEK to almost 700 million. The result was supported by effective price realization of both vehicles and parts, and continuous improvements of manufacturing and material costs, more than offsetting the impact from lower volumes. The adjusted operating income margin increased to 10.4 percent, and the currency impact was minor within the quarter. Moving to Penta, and also Penta had a record quarter down when it comes to operating income for a fourth quarter. Looking at the numbers then, driven by lower volumes, FX adjusted net sales decreased by 5% to $4.8 billion. Adjusted operating income increased to $583 million thanks to positive product and market mix driven by heavy duty engines and components, U.S. business, and price realization. This contributed to keep the high performance in a quarter with lower volumes. The adjusted operating margin reached 12.2%, and there was a slightly negative FX impact in the quarter at $17 million. And then financial services. The credit portfolio increased to $280 billion, with a rolling 12-month return on equity of 13%. Portfolio performance continued to be good, with customer delinquencies stabilizing at an average business cycle level. In Q4, adjusted operating income was stable above $1 billion, and the solid portfolio performance was partly offset by higher operating expenses, increased credit provisions, and unfavorable currency movements, which had a negative impact of about $40 million compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. So with that, I'm leaving for Martin to summarize.

Thank you, Mats. Thanks for that walkthrough as well. Yes, we'll only spend a couple of minutes to take a step back and also summarize the full year. It's always worthwhile doing that when we are actually closing the year. So a couple of comments. I should say that we believe it has been a year with strong performance for the group despite, as you know, a lot of different types of challenges. It has been a year with corrections in the market volumes, even if it has been largely expected, you need to handle that. It has been together with an inflationary backdrop and geopolitical turmoil. At the same time also, of course, coming with efforts, but very positive for the future, a massive rollout of new products and solutions in all parts of the world, not at least for trucks and Volvo construction equipment. and increased efforts and spending and investments into innovation in technology and digital to stay competitive and to capture the growth opportunities in the years ahead. In that climate, we have managed to keep a good quality in the business, and that is important. High flexibility in our industrial systems and great corporations across the board, not at least with supply chain partners and, of course, our customers. The net sales of 527 billion came also with a gross margin that actually slightly improved for the group over the year in relation to 23. Yes, we have had a little bit of, not slippery slope, but a little bit of weakening situation related to the North American, but very well-defined situation. But it's important to remember that gross marginal 27.3% for the group, 24 in relation to 27%, is a sign of strength, and it's related both to good industrial flexibility, but also to continuous growth in services and price discipline. Adjusted operating income was at the level of 66 billion and operating cash flow more or less on par with 23. For 24 then, 45 billion SEK. And EPS was at 24.78 or 24.8 Swedish kronor per share. And the board is proposing an ordinary dividend of 8 kronor per share. That is an increase with 50 öre or 50 Swedish cents. and an extra dividend of 10.5 SEK resulting in a total dividend of 18.5 KR per share. So for the future, we have a solid foundation with strong customer relations, financial position, technology in the pipeline and also launched an industrial backbone, both launched and continue to be expanded, and most importantly, great colleagues and business partners. So by that, I would just like to express my gratitude to all of you that are participating across the world for a successful 24. And that concludes the presentation. Johan, you will take over, I assume.

It is the Q&A. So thank you for that, Martin. Thank you very much. So we will continue with the Q&A. And there are many people who want to ask questions, which is good. And so we please ask you to try to keep to your most important question. And we start in the room, and we start with Agnieszka.

So let's see if we can go from, you know, say one, and then it would be 1.5. Maybe it could be 1.2 now. Agnieszka, sorry.

Perfect. Thank you, Agnieszka, Vilela, Nordea. So just looking at your average sales per truck in the quarter, it's improved by 5% year-on-year. Can you help us to understand what was the price impact versus the mix impact? And then if you can also tell us about the price environment in general in the industry and whether you expect a positive price contribution from the newly launched models. Thank you.

Maybe I can start with a mixed question, Dan, because if you're looking at deliveries and in particular looking at trucks, it is a rather big impact coming from the light commercial vehicles as well that needs to be considered when you're looking at the average per truck stand. So that is important to start with. And when it comes to, I mean, in terms of pricing, and I mean, Martin has been clear on that, that, I mean, we don't see any pricing effects year over year, but we are holding on to prices overall.

No, I think, I mean, just to add, and all of you, of course, are aware of that, but when we are looking at the price effect, we are trying to isolate what is other type of factors coming into play, obviously, as you say. I mean, the customer profiles, size and others, the segments, the geographies, and then you have the different boxes that you can carve out. And why it is important to be granular now is exactly Thomas' point to understand what is happening and there we feel that we are holding on with a good price discipline and not at least now when we feel that we are, so to speak, setting it out and I think it has been a good achievement. So primarily that is the mix effect between the light and the medium and heavy. Because, as you know, we have had a changeover when it comes to the light commercial vehicles together with Renault Group during the year. And now deliveries will start to come back, but it has been a weak year in terms of deliveries for light commercial vehicles.

We continue with Mattias from DMV.

I think in Q3 you helped us with the impact from the VNL launch and the supply chain issues about 100 basis points. Could you at all help us with the same number for Q4 and potentially also how much longer you expect to be impacted by this?

We said slightly better. So I think we stay there. I think in Q3 it was important to give that. So, I mean, otherwise it could be discussion about the underlying quality of the business. And when you have big events, and then in Q3 it's what particular, I mean, the shortage of cabs and the start of the ramp-up of the VNL. It was important for us to give a sense of what does that mean in terms of the truck margin since it had relatively then big impact. Still remembering that it's not unexpected. I mean, when you are doing these big launches, of course, you need to plan for double production and also resilience in the system. It is slightly better, but it is still visible clearly. But Mats also said clearly we are expecting that to fade out. So I think we stay there basically.

Thank you. We turn to the telephone line, and there we have Daniela Kostas from Goldman Sachs.

Thank you. Good morning. Actually, my first question is to follow up on some of the things you just mentioned. But when we tell your comment that you have several quarters of book to build below one, and now it's turning, but we still have the history, and we have these impacts, the CABs, the V&Ls, and the other things, do you see a seasonality throughout the year in 2025 that we should think about in a different way to what normally it is? That's my first question, and then I have one on your EPA commentary.

I think it's fair to say that with the order intake that has been encouraging rather across, so to speak, main regions here, it has been a number of factors. First and foremost, that we were able actually to deliver good volumes in all parts of the world means that we have a good situation when it comes to our pipelines. When it comes to inventories, when it comes to the balance, etc. And when you are in a market that is correcting and you start to feel that it's flattening it out, that is a good starting point. Now with order intake, of course, we are ready. And if anything, during the start of the year, that will take a couple of weeks. weeks, etc., we are now gradually, so to speak, making sure that we can be ready for also a gradual adjustment upwards. Exactly when and how that will come, it's a little bit easy to say, but we feel rather confident that we have started to see that that coming back is now here. The pace is still to be seen. So as we already said in the presentation, this will be a gradual, so to speak, coming back as we expected both for Europe and North America, in particular, over the course of the year. Anything to add from your side?

No, maybe just to kind of stress that we have kind of a really good starting point looking at what we have done in terms of net booking capital also in the fourth quarter with low inventories then coming into 2025. And that is maybe also something to kind of be mentioned when we are talking about the margin and the kind of the margin for the fourth quarter. I mean, when we have a destocking like we have in the quarter now with about $9 billion in terms of destocking, that also has a certain impact on the margin as well in terms of underabsorption. Even though this is a seasonal pattern in the Volvo Group that we see that in the fourth quarter, but it's maybe more pronounced now looking at the fourth quarter this year with this big kind of improvements when it comes to working capital.

And maybe it can be just as a follow-up on that worthwhile mentioning. We talked about new trucks and new equipment when it comes to the pipeline balance, but we see that also used, actually. So I think that is a good starting point.

Clear, thank you. And then just on the EPA commentary where you still see some possibility of pre-buy in the second half, we've heard some of your other European competitors, but which represent a sizable part of the U.S. market, saying they don't think they need big price increases. If that doesn't happen... Do you still see pre-buy and sort of how will you position yourself on that EPA compliant truck in terms of pricing given also your market share ambitions on V&L?

But I think to be seen obviously, I think it's always almost a psychological dimension of introductions of new legislations. So there is an effect just that it is happening. Because it's the price effect, but it's also, I mean, the customer thinking about, I mean, what is new in this and how should I think about it from a technology certainty point of view. But having said that, I think in a dream scenario, by the way, I think it's much better if we don't see too much of pre-buys and getting more to a market that is following the economic activities and the general activity level. And there we feel still positive about what is about to come. I mean, we are starting to see now freight prices and activity levels also coming back on the on-road segments and vocational is strong, et cetera. So what we have guided for when it comes to the tailwind related to that, we still think will be something. If it will not be overpronounced, I think it will be good for the industry actually and for Volvo. Thanks.

If you don't mind, just a very quick follow-up on the first question, actually.

No, Daniela, because we have said two, well, you said one, and we have allowed two.

No, it was just that you didn't address the CAB and the VNL.

Okay, maybe do it for... I appreciate it.

Right, we continue with the numbers.

Thank you. I have a question on Europe. If we look at the order intake, 29,000 units, even if I kind of from broad season adjustments on that selling rate, it seems like volumes are running higher than the 106 you sold last year and market ended at 360 last year and you're still guiding for 290. Can you take us through how you think about current demand situation and also where you are in run rate and why you're still holding back a bit or am I missing something? Thank you.

I mean of course if you just do the maths and in particular on the heavy duty side where you're almost 25,000 for order intake and then of course you can come to conclusion that 290,000 can be a little bit on the low side. At the same time I think it's also like that when you've had a correction in the market and when you're flatting it out there is some elements of an possible overswing. I don't think it's over-pronounced because, as we said, inventory levels are low. But we have said that 290,000, I remember also in quarter three, it was a discussion if we were too bullish on the 290,000. And now, so I think for the time being, will it be 290? Will we see Amine coming back? Let's see. I think the more important message, we are in good balance. We have the flexibility. And I can assure you, we will capture the opportunities that come there. And we have already done some small adjustments in order to prepare for it.

We'll stay there. Thank you for that. You can come back. I saw that one coming. So we move over to the telephone line, and we have Michael from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks. Good morning, Martin, Matt, and Johan. You have the order book for the B&L during 4Q. Are orders progressing there as you expect, and Just speaking to some dealers, it seems pricing is up around 5% on a like-for-like track. Is that what you're seeing? I noticed your competitor last night mentioned they expected pricing kind of X new products to be up from 2Q, 3Q in the U.S. as well. So just kind of trying to integrate pricing orders on the new V&L and the overall pricing market in the U.S.

No, thanks, Michael. Good question. Of course, I mean, to start with, all new VNL is coming with fantastic value. And it's not just me talking as a salesperson or a marketeer, but if you take the facts around the all new VNL in terms of fuel efficiency, when it comes to safety features, when it comes to a lot of the so to speak, wishes and requirements coming from our customers, we feel it's a great launch here. And of course that we have, I mean, clear ambitions that that will also be reflected in the value. So I think it's, I mean, I will not reveal an exact figure on that, but it's coming with, and we see that also in Europe, by the way, with FHRO, that we are able to also... get the value out that is fair to still have a win-win between the customers and the group, so to speak. So that will be a good and important element for us in North America. And then to your point, of course, we have also with the ramp-up in partly cautious of opening up the order book and also for market status. So as you did see, it was also, I think it was 26, 27% better than last year. called before and that was related to that we now also feel more confident in the ramp up and opening up that so we all feeling as we speak there.

Good. Thank you. We move over to Björn from Danske Bank.

Thank you. Yes. On cue for you talking about a weak product in regional mix and looking ahead you sound quite confident but one of your competitors last night talked about Maybe a little bit of a positive mix with slowing momentum for vocational and slowing momentum in Eastern Europe versus Western Europe. And you are highlighting basically a very large order to European fleets and a continuous strong momentum for vocational. So that sounds like a weak mix. Is that – I mean, what kind of impact should we expect for this year?

I mean, you're correct, and as we are writing in the report as well, so we have, in terms of the customer mix, I mean, we have more fleets and been successful on that side, and especially looking at Europe. And that has a kind of a consequence from a mix point of view when it comes to the margin or the leverage as well. So it is a mixed factor with the customers, yes.

And how material or?

But, I mean, it goes up and down. And, I mean, it's a normal kind of cyclical thing that you see right now in terms of where we are in the cycle. So nothing particular from that point of view.

And, I mean, well expected also. I mean, when you're a little bit where we are in the cycle, the fleets are generally speaking more active because they have the replacement schemes, et cetera. And as I briefly mentioned in my presentation, we start to see that retail customers are more active now and are starting to feel, okay, it's time to come back, et cetera. I think the most important, as we've said, Bjorn, is that when we look at the different segments isolated, that we don't see any deterioration of our commercial conditions because that should be a more problematic sign and that we don't see.

Perfect.

Thank you. Very well. Thank you for that. We move to the telephone line and Klaus Bergerlin from Citigroup. Please go ahead, Klaus.

Thank you. Hi, Martin and Mats, Klaus at Citi. So my first one is on the margin going forward. Obviously, as you say, Mats, the net capitalization will be supportive going forward as per your guide, but you talk about continued investments, and the comp here is a bit tricky into the first quarter as you ramped r d at the end of last year do you think we can see a similar year-over-year impact in the bridge from R&D at the start of the year. And then on pricing, Martin, you say that you are realizing pricing is still on services. If you could comment a bit more on what is happening on vehicles. And then finally, coming back to the mix and Bjorn's question, if you look at the backlog for delivery into the next quarter, do you think you will have more fleet deliveries versus retail? Sorry, that was a lot, but that was my three questions in one, I guess.

Thank you. I can start on the R&D question then. We have the kind of the normal seasonal patterns, so to speak, when it comes to R&D expenses. However, important to remember, I mean, if you recall the fourth quarter last year, we actually had some positive one-timers that I talked about, about 500 million impacting the fourth quarter last year from a positive point of view on R&D, which makes the year-over-year difference kind of bigger than than the underlying, so to speak, as we had a positive last year. But still, we have a seasonality with a higher spending than in the fourth quarter. But what I'm also clear, and you heard in my presentation as well, that what we're talking about is having R&D kind of leveling out on the average 2024 level or slightly above that, meaning that we have been talking about an increasing R&D and increasing investments, but we're now talking more of a plateau when it comes to R&D from where we are right now. And I guess that's something that is a little bit new in that.

On a gross level.

On a gross level, yes. And then on top of that, you have, as you said, in terms of guidance when it comes to net capitalization to be about $3 billion for 2025. So that is kind of a positive on the net R&D side.

What was it?

Pricing of vehicles, how that was in the quarter.

Yeah, I mean, we don't provide exact, as you know, forecast around that. I think the more important message is that, again, we feel good about the situation where we look into the different segments, how we are maintaining the prices, and then exactly how the mix plays out I think that when it comes to evaluation perspective, it's on the marginal side, actually, to be frank.

Good. Thank you for that.

And I can say one thing more about R&D, just to be clear. Again, that's the reason why we also are eager to talk about the gross margins and the development, because that is super important for us, both when it comes to pricing and industrial flexibility and also the service operations. R&D is a deliberate decision. And when it comes to technology, innovation, digital, in this point of infliction, I think it's a very wise decision given our position of strength to do that. There are considerable growth opportunities. Of course, if markets should change dramatically, we can always do things. But to be short-sighted in a situation like we have now should be unwise when it comes to value creation for our shareholders.

Thank you. Any more questions in the room? Then we continue on the telephone line. We move to UBS and Hemal Munda. Please go ahead.

Hi, Hemal Bindia from UBS. Hi, Johan, Matt and Martin. Thanks for taking my question. I guess on the European heavy duty orders, it was mostly up in Q4. Is that something you've seen carry over into Q1? And in terms of your order book currently, how booked out would you say you are for Q1 and Q2? Thank you.

No, but of course, I mean, one of the key priorities that we've had during the course of 24 is to find the right balance. And we've had a situation with a shrinking order book, not only negative, obviously, because we had, as you remember, we had two long delivery times, et cetera, and especially in an inflationary environment, that is not something that you want to have in order to keep promises out there. So we have gradually taken down that, and then also with the correction in the market, and thereby also our own industrial corrections. I think we, during Q3, And quarter two, quarter three have found the balance. Now what we have seen is that with the order intake, of course, that has gradually also improved, so to speak, the order board. as such, and that's the reason why we are saying during the course of the first half of year here, if this continues, we will of course adapt to that situation. But I think the message is good correction and we followed well when it comes to industrial system. Now we have a good pipeline and we are ready to – and I mean, it was not a specific situation in quarter four, if I say so. I mean, it has not been a big change when we look at the start of the year here in quarter one when it comes to order activity.

Thank you. We continue with Jose at J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead, Jose.

Very good morning. And one question, please. Can you comment on the key actions to improve the gross margin in the truck division in 2025? If you can comment around Gaining some market share in North America. Do you expect the VNL ramp-up cost to be done by the second quarter? And any update on the Mexico ramp-up plant? Thank you.

No, but I think, again, looking at the truck situation, generally speaking, gross margin-wise, I think well managed. both when it comes to flexibility in our core structures and also when it comes, as we said, to commercial conditions and pricing. The pressure that we have seen over Q3, Q4 well discussed, mainly then were almost solely related to North America, apart from, I mean, very specific situation with the reality that's happening, but that is what it is, basically, with the 14% drop there. So, I mean, that is one thing, and must talk about it clearly, gradual, so to speak, fading away, because we are ramping up, learning curve is there, the parallel production will start to fade, et cetera. The storm was a specific and fortunate event, both when it comes to human suffering and loss of production, et cetera. So, I mean, those are very specific events. Then, if we will see a gradual coming back, obviously, we expect to have leverage. But now we take it step by step. We are in good balance. We have the order intake. And we will follow that. And then we... Then we come back to the normal hunt work, as we say in Sweden, but the normal way of continuous improvement and do our job when it comes to industrial leverage. Thank you. And Mexico, I mean, that is running according to plan. And as you know, we have a very strong starting point in the situation in North America, 100% of our truck store if you use in the United States for North America, and the project is running accordingly.

Maybe one thing to add when it comes to the gross income, and we have plus and minuses when it comes to gross profit, but we cannot forget the service business as well. That has been extremely important now with lower volumes on the new vehicle sales, and the service being a kind of a positive one when you're looking at the mix. And we are now, if I recall it, looking at... The fourth quarter close to 24% of the total in service. So service business also being important. So don't forget about that.

Thank you so much. Thank you. We continue with Miguel from BMP. Please go ahead, Miguel.

Hi everyone. Just have one question on the Q4 truck margin and the very strong order intake during Q4. I understand the issues you mentioned, but just wanted to make sure to ask that this somehow that correlates to a softer net pricing in any region. Some of your peers have been highlighting some concessions in the whole service plus vehicle package. Do you see pricing dynamics changing somehow in 2025? Thank you very much.

Again, if I understood it correctly, Dan, about the truck margin, I'm coming back to the previous answers as well. Because, I mean, we have some specifics looking at the fourth quarter, but the pricing as such is kind of solid, as Martin has talked about. So that is not the issue. I mean, we're talking more about the specific North America and also the currency effect on the trucks not to be forgotten there. It's around 500 million, so it's quite a lot there. But then looking at the other items done in terms of gross margin, I mean, the volumes, I mean, clearly that's kind of a negative year over year. But then we have some positives and some negatives. But the big thing then, looking at the fourth quarter, that's right, that in North America we have the currency also being important to remember that.

Yes, good. Thank you. I think we'll let that conclude this press conference. Many questions today from many banks. That was good. So, thank you for joining today, and all materials are posted on the webpage. So, with that...