Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited

Good morning and welcome to Fairfax's 2025 fourth quarter results conference call. Your lines have been placed in a listen only mode. After the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time, to ask a question, please press star one on your phone keypad. For time's sake, we ask that you limit your questions to one. Today's conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. Your host for today's call is Peter Clark, with opening remarks from Derek Buglis. Derek, please begin.

Good morning, and welcome to our call to discuss Fairfax's 2025 year-end results. This call may include forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ, perhaps materially, from those contained in such forward-looking statements as a result of a variety of uncertainties and risk factors, the most foreseeable of which are set out under risk factors in our base shelf prospectus, which has been filed with Canadian securities regulators and is available on CDAR+. Fairfax disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, except as required by applicable securities law. I'll now turn the call over to our president and COO, Peter Clark.

Thank you, Derek. Good morning, and welcome to Fairfax's 2025 fourth quarter and year-end conference call. I plan to give you some highlights and then pass the call to Wade Burton, our president and chief investment officer of Hamla-Watsa, comment on investments, and Amy Shirk, our Chief Financial Officer, to provide some additional financial details. 2025 was the best year in our history. We earned $4.8 billion after taxes, the most ever, with record underwriting income of $1.8 billion and record interest and dividend income of $2.6 billion. We also had strong contributions from investments in associates, our non-insurance consolidated investments, and net gains on investments. Operating income from our insurance and reinsurance operations on an undiscounted basis and before risk margin was again very strong at $4.6 billion. We have many sources of income, and they all performed very well this year. Our both value per share increased 20.5%, adjusted for $15 dividend to 1260 up from 1060 at December 31 2024, an increase of approximately $200 per share. Last year, we purchased for cancellation just over 1 million shares at an average cost of 1060 615 per share. At December 31st, 2025, there were 20.9 million shares outstanding. And in the first six weeks of 2026, we purchased the further 131,000 shares at an average cost of $16.85 per share. Our insurance and reinsurance companies are in great shape, writing over $33 billion of premium worldwide. We continue to benefit from our scale and diversification through our decentralized insurance operations supported by the deep expertise and long tenor of our presidents and the leadership teams across our insurance and reinsurance businesses. As we have said before, we can see our consolidated operating income for the next number of years at 5 billion. Of course, no guarantees. And this consists of 1.5 billion of underwriting profit, interest and dividend income of 2.5 billion and 1 billion income from our associates and non-insurance consolidated income. On February 17th, 2026, it was announced Kennedy Wilson entered into a definitive merger agreement pursuant to which they will be acquired in an all cash transaction by a consortium led by Bill McMorrow Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Kennedy Wilson, certain other senior executives, and together with Fairfax. Under the merger agreement, the consortium will acquire all outstanding shares of Kennedy Wilson not already owned by members of the consortium for $10.90 per share in cash. The per share purchase price represents a 46% premium to Kennedy Wilson's unaffected share price as of November 4th, 2025. The last trading day prior to Kennedy Wilson receiving and publicly disclosing the consortium's proposal. Fairfax is committed to provide the consortium with funding up to an aggregate amount of 1.65 billion, which is the amount necessary to fund the cash purchase price and the redemption of certain preferred shares and other expenses. Bill McMoral will have effective control and will continue to lead and have ultimate responsibility for the company, while Fairfax will have a majority economic interest in the company. The transaction is subject to customary closing conditions, including shareholder approvals and is expected to close in the second quarter of 2026. I will now give you some additional detail on the components of our net earnings for the year. Our investment return for 2025 was outstanding with a return of 9.3% driven by very stable interest and dividend income and associate earnings and a very strong year on net gains on our equity investments. Consolidated interest and dividend income of 2.6 billion was up 62 million year over year benefiting from a growing investment portfolio offset by lower interest rates and decreased dividend income primarily from a one-off dividend from Digit Insurance from its IPO in 2024. Net gains on investments of 3.2 billion for the year were one of the highest ever in our history driven by gains on our equity exposures of 3 billion unrealized gains on our bond portfolio of $385 million, primarily from U.S. Treasuries due to the decrease in interest rates during the year, offset by foreign exchange losses of $440 million, much of which was offset by foreign currency translation gains recorded in other comprehensive income. Net gains of $3 billion on our equity and equity-related holdings were driven by realized gains and unrealized mark-to-market gains on investments, with our major contributors being our Fairfax TRS, Orla Mining, a position we sold about half of our common shares, or a quarter of our interest in including convertibles and warrants in the fourth quarter. Also contributing was CIB Bank, and Metlin Energy. We have always said, and please remember, our net gains or losses on investments only make sense over the long term and will fluctuate from quarter to quarter, or for that matter, year to year. More on investments from Wade. I've mentioned in previous quarters, our book value per share of 1,260 does not include unrealized gains or losses in our equity-accounted investments and our consolidated investments, which are not mark-to-market. At the end of the year, the fair value of these securities is in excess of carrying value by $3.1 billion, an unrealized gain position or $150 per share on a pre-tax basis. This increase from $1.5 billion or $68 per share last year. In 2025, changes in discount rates resulted in a pre-tax loss of 59 million with net gains on bonds of 385 million offset by a loss on net reserves of 444 million. This compares to a pre-tax loss of 530 million in 2024 with bond losses of 731 million offset by a benefit of 201 million on net reserves. Our insurance and reinsurance businesses wrote 33.3 billion of gross premium in 2025, an all time high of 2.3%, or 750 million versus 2024. Our North American insurance segment increased gross premiums by 468 million in 2025, or 5.3%. Crum Forster had growth of 9.5% driven by its accident and health business and surplus and specialty lines. Xenus premiums were up 6.5% year over year due to positive rate in workers' compensation business, primarily in California, its complementary P&C business, and new business in its large account segment. Northbridge's premiums were down 2.6% in Canadian dollars, with planned reductions in its personalized business and in transportation. Their customer attentions continue to remain strong, benefiting from strong customer service. Our global insurer and reinsurer segment gross premium was up 2.4%, with gross premiums of 17.6 billion in 2025, up $412 million year over year. BRIT's gross premium was up 3.8% for the year, primarily from BRIT RE and growth in high margin classes, including property, financial line, and marine business. On a net basis, BRIT's premium was up 4.2%, retaining a greater share of profitable business. Allied World was up 3.3% for the year, with gross premiums of 7.4 billion with each of their operating segments growing with the reinsurance segment up 6.5%, its global markets up 4.7% and North American insurance was up 1%. Odyssey Group's premiums were flat in 2025 with gross written premium of 6.3 billion. Its insurance business was down 4.8% principally from targeted decreases at Hudson in its crop and financial lines of business, while reinsurance was up 3.9%, mainly property business in the United States, including reinstatement premiums from the California wildfires. Key, their premium was up 3.8%, primarily on property lines, offset by open market business. And our international insurance and reinsurance operations rose premium 6.4 billion in 2025 versus 6.5 billion in 2024. The decline was primarily from Gulf insurance due to the decrease in health insurance business in its operations in Kuwait. Excluding Gulf insurance, our international operations premiums were up almost 8%. Airfax Asia led by Singapore Re, Colonnade in Eastern Europe, Bright Insurance in South Africa, our Ukrainian companies, ARX and Universala, and Polish Re all had double digit growth in the year. A very nice diversified platform that is growing profitably. Our international operations rate a significant amount of premium at 6.4 billion. This is bigger than the whole of Fairfax only 15 years ago. We continue to be excited about the prospects for our international operations, and we expect it will be a significant source of growth over time, driven by excellent management teams that are more and more collaborating among themselves and leveraging the strengths of Fairfax. On the underwriting front, we had a very strong end to the year with a fourth quarter combined ratio of 88.6, producing an underwriting profit of 753 million. Focusing on the full year, our combined ratio was 93.0 on discounted basis, producing record underwriting profit of 1.8 billion. The combined ratio included catastrophe losses of 1.2 billion, adding 4.8 combined ratio points, primarily from the California wildfires in the first quarter of 2025, Hurricane Melissa in the fourth quarter, and other attritional losses. This compares to a combined ratio of 92.7, underwriting profit of just under 1.8 billion, and catastrophe losses of four and a half points in 2024. As our premium base has expanded, and with the benefits of diversification, we expect to be able to absorb significant catastrophe losses within our underlying underwriting profit. For the full year 2025, our global insurers and reinsurers posted a combined ratio of 92.1 led by Allied World with a combined ratio of 89.3. And an underwriting profit for Allied of 546 million, the largest underwriting profit among all our companies. Odyssey Group had another solid year producing a combined ratio of 93.8 with underwriting income of 375 million. These results include 11 points of catastrophe losses, primarily from the California wildfire losses in the first quarter of 2025. Of all our companies, Odyssey felt the effects of catastrophe losses the most this year, not unexpected. BRIT continues to produce excellent results with 183 million of underwriting profit and a third year in a row of sub 95 combined ratio at 92.7. Key had a combined ratio of 95.7 with an underwriting profit of 33 million in its first full year reporting as a separate company from BRIT. Key's results were affected by separation costs of 4.4 combined ratio points. Excluding these non-recurring costs, Key's combined ratio would have been in the low 90s, an excellent year for Key. Our North American insurers had a combined ratio of 93.8 in 2025, very similar to its combined ratio in 2024. Northbridge had the lowest combined ratio of all our major companies with an 88.7 and underwriting income of 238 million. Grumman Forrester continues to grow profitably with a combined ratio of 94.8 and an all-time record underwriting profit for them at 236 million. Zenith, our workers' compensation specialist, had a combined ratio of 102, managing multiple years of price decreases in that line of business, although now trending in the right direction. Our international operations delivered a combined ratio of 94.7 for the year. Fairfax Asia led the way with a combined ratio of 90.3, led by Singapore Reeve. offset by elevated combined ratios at Fair First in Sri Lanka that were affected by Cyclone Ditwa late in the year and Falcon Thailand who suffered two major catastrophes in the year. Our operations in South America had an excellent year at 94.5 combined with all its operations producing underwriting profit led by Southbridge in Chile and Fairfax, Brazil. Colonnade, who writes business across Eastern Europe, had a great year with underwriting profit of $23 million, more than double the previous year. And Polish Re had an excellent year with record underwriting profit and a combined ratio of 94.5. Bright in South Africa, for the second year in a row, posted a combined ratio below 95 at 92.2. EuroLife's non-life operations in Greece had a small underwriting profit at 100.5, reflecting a very competitive environment, especially in its molder business. And finally, golf insurance was back to underwriting profitability in 2025 with a combined ratio of 96.5 and underwriting profit of 53 million. Our international operations diversified across the globe, wrote 6.4 billion of gross premium and produced 219 million of underwriting profit. This is a five times increase over the last five years. You can see why we are very excited about our international operations. For the year, our insurance and reinsurance companies recorded favorable reserve development of 752 million for a benefit of 2.9 points on our combined ratio. This is compared to 594 million for the benefit of 2.4 points in 2024. This is the 19th consecutive year our insurance and reinsurance operations have had favorable reserve development, amounting over that time period, cumulatively to $6.9 billion. We have a strong reserving philosophy and are focused on setting our ongoing reserves at conservative levels, especially on long tail lines of business. Offsetting this, our runoff operations strengthened reserves by 298 million as part of their annual actuarial reserve process. The strengthening related primarily to latent liabilities due to the continued increases in litigation activity. Through our decentralized operations, our insurance and reinsurance companies continue to thrive, riding close to 33 billion in gross premium, producing record underwriting profit, and as we've said before, led by our exceptional management teams. Our companies are positioned very well to continue capitalizing on their opportunities in their respective markets in 2026. I will now pass the call to Wade Burton, our President and Chief Investment Officer of Hamblawatsa, to comment on our investment.

Thank you, Peter. Good morning. Our investment portfolios ended the quarter at $74.9 billion. Of the $74.9 billion, $50 billion was invested in fixed income and $24.9 billion in stocks, investment in associates, LPs, and preferreds. The $50 billion in fixed income is earning a very nice yield of 5%, despite being very short duration and mostly invested in government bonds. We're playing it safe with spreads at lows and uncertainty around inflation numbers, yet earning good money while we do that. We're keeping a close eye on inflation, treasury actions, Fed funds rate, GDP growth, and corporate profitability, both in the U.S. and globally. If there's one thing our fixed income group has proven, it's that it has the ability to act quickly when the time is right. It's really a core competitive advantage throughout our investment group. When we feel the time is right, we will act. For now, we're playing it safe in fixed income. All of our top holdings on the 24.9 billion of equity and equity-like investments had good years in 2025. Eurobank, Atlas, Recipe, Fairfax India, Metlin, Sleep Country, Exco, Peak Achievements are all in great shape, all earning their cost of capital and all beautifully run by people we like and trust. These top holdings are a very large percentage of our equity and equity-like investments, and they're making our jobs easy. We've added a new stock to our portfolios. The company is called Under Armour, founded and run by Kevin Plank. Kevin, as a youth, was a college-level football player and saw an opportunity to make better athletic wear for under equipment. He started Under Armour in his garage in 1996. By 2001, revenues were $50 million. 2005, they were $280 million. And in 2017, the company reached 5 billion in sales. Profits every year through 2017. 2017 through 2025 were what we would call the lean years. Restructuring charges, new CEOs, lawsuits, increased skews, lower product prices and lower margins. The stock went from as high as in the 50s to as low as in the fours. Kevin stepped down as CEO in 2020 and finally took back the role of CEO in 2024. He is refocusing the company on product development, marketing and brand development and reducing skews. This is exactly the right plan for the long run. Costly and lumpy and the stock market sometimes doesn't have the patience for that. We can see that they have the balance sheet, the focus and the discipline to turn the company around. And at Fairfax, we focus on the long run. So the lumpiness creates an opportunity for us to take advantage of. With a founder we are so excited to have running this business. Lastly, you will have seen post-year-end 2025, we are taking our longtime partner, Kennedy Wilson Private, buying out minority shareholders at $10.90 a share. Three points on this. One, we have had a long-standing and very profitable relationship with Bill McMorrow, Matt Windisch, and the team at Kennedy Wilson, from mortgages to LP investments to investments in their shares. Two, Kennedy Wilson has world-class capabilities underwriting real estate. Having this capability in-house at Fairfax is a huge long-term benefit for Fairfax shareholders. Three, the cultural fit between Kennedy Wilson and Fairfax is outstanding. Over the last 16 years, we developed a deep-seated friendship built on respect and openness and striving for excellence, all while treating people well. Overall, 2025 was an outstanding year on the investment side, and we are in great shape to weather any coming storms and to take advantage of opportunities. And with that, I will pass it to Amy Shirk, our CFO.

Thank you, Wade. I'll begin my comments by discussing our non-insurance company results in the fourth quarter and full year of 2025. Non-insurance companies reported an operating income of $101 million in the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to $150 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. Operating income of the non-insurance companies increased to $397 million in the full year of 2025 from $241 million in 2024, despite a primarily non-cash impairment charge recorded at Boat Rocker Media of $109 million in 2025 before the company deconsolidated Boat Rocker on August 1st. The increase in operating income in 2025 primarily reflected the acquisition of Sleep Country on October 1, 2024, and the consolidation of Peak Achievement on December 20, 2024, which recorded operating incomes of $92 million and $103 million, respectively, in the full year of 2025. Looking at our share of profit from investments in associates in the fourth quarter and full year of 2025, we continue to report strong consolidated share of profit of associates of 252 million in the fourth quarter of 2025, principally related to share of profit of 123 million from Eurobank, 70 million from Poseidon, and 34 million from Exco Resources. In the full year of 2025, consolidated share of profit of associates was 816 million, principally reflecting share of profit of 474 million from Eurobank, 287 million from Poseidon, 55 million from GoDigit, and 53 million from Exco Resources, partially offset by share of loss of 65 million from Wateris Fund 3, and 45 million from Fairfax India's investment in Sandmar Chemicals. The decreased share of profit of associates of 816 million in 2025, compared to 956 million in 2024, primarily reflected the company's consolidation of peak achievements on December 20th, 2024, and its sale of Sigma on March 28th, 2025. Peak Achievement and Sigma contributed 57 million and 34 million respectively to our share of profit of associates in the full year of 2024. A few comments on our transactions for the quarter. Pursuant to the company's previously announced proposed sale of its EuroLife life operations to EuroBank, at December 31st, 2025, The company had classified assets of 3.4 billion and liabilities of 3.6 billion related to EuroLife Life Operations as held for sale in our consolidated balance sheet. The current estimated pre-tax gain on closing is approximately 350 million. Prior to closing, the company will purchase certain investments held by the EuroLife Life Operations which will affect the gain ultimately realized on the sale. The proposed transactions are subject to entry into definitive agreements and customary closing conditions and are expected to close in the second quarter of 2026. Subsequent to December 31st, 2025, on February 5th, 2026, AGT filed an amended and restated preliminary prospectus with Canadian securities regulatory authorities for a proposed $460 million Canadian initial public offering and secondary offering of its common shares of $425 million as a Treasury issuance and $35 million in a secondary sale with an expected price range between $26 and $30 Canadian per common share. Both Fairfax and AGT's CEO are not selling any common shares in the offering. Subsequent to AGT's initial public offering, the company expects to have, directly or indirectly, an equity interest in AGT of approximately 51% to 53%. A few words on our IFRS 17 results. The company's consolidated statement of earnings in the fourth quarter and full year of 2025 were also impacted by changes in interest rates and specifically the effects it had on discounting on prior year net losses on claims and our fixed income portfolio. Net earnings of $1.2 billion and $4.8 billion in the fourth quarter and full year of 2025 included a net benefit of only 9 million and a net loss of 59 million, reflecting the effects of changes in interest rates during the quarter and for the full year of 2025. The net benefit in the fourth quarter comprised of a net benefit on insurance contracts and reinsurance contracts held of 42 million and net losses on bonds of 34 million. The net loss for the full year was comprised of a net loss on insurance contracts and reinsurance contracts held of $444 million and net gains on bonds of $385 million. Comparatively, net earnings of $1.2 billion and $3.9 billion in the fourth quarter and full year of 2024 included net losses of $438 million and $530 million respectively, reflecting the changes, the effects of changes in interest rates. The net losses in the fourth quarter and full year of 2024 comprised of net losses on bonds of $1.1 billion and $731 million, partially offset by the net benefits of insurance contracts and reinsurance contracts held at $613 million and $201 million respectively. When you compare the year-over-year change in interest rates on a pre-tax basis for the quarter and year, the changes resulted in an approximate $446 million and $471 million positive movement in our pre-tax earnings. This demonstrates our general expectation that our interest rate risk is now partially mitigated. I will close with a few comments on our financial condition. Maintaining an emphasis on financial soundness at December 31, 2025, The company held $2.7 billion of cash and investments at the holding company, had access to our $2 billion unsecured revolving credit facility, an additional $2.2 billion at fair value of investments in associates and consolidated non-insurance companies owned by the holding company. Holding company cash and investments support the company's decentralized structure, and enable the company to deploy capital efficiently to its insurance and reinsurance companies. At December 31st, 2025, the excess of fair value over carrying value of investments in non-insurance associates and market traded consolidated non-insurance subsidiaries was 3.1 billion compared to 1.5 billion at December 31st, 2024. with 1.4 billion of that increase related to an increase in the publicly traded market price of Eurobank. The pre-tax excess of 3.1 billion is not reflected in the company's book value per basic share, but is regularly reviewed by management as an indicator of investment performance. The company's total debt to total capital ratio, excluding non-insurance companies, increased to 26.2% at December 31st, 2025, compared to 24.8% at December 31st, 2024. This primarily reflected increased total debt and redemptions of the company's series E, S, G, H, I, J, and M preferred shares, partially offset by increased common shareholders' equity. On the redemption of our Canadian dollar-denominated preferred shares in 2025, we recognized a gain of 187 million in equity on the favorable foreign exchange movement. Common shareholders' equity increased by approximately 3.3 billion to 26.3 billion at December 31st, up from 23 billion at December 31st, 2024, primarily reflecting net earnings attributable to shareholders of Fairfax of $4.8 billion and other comprehensive income of $425 million, primarily related to unrealized foreign currency translation gains net of hedges as a result of the strengthening of foreign currencies against the US dollar. Partially offset by purchases of just over 1 million subordinate voting shares for cancellation, for cash consideration of $1.6 billion or $1,614.69 per share and payments of common and preferred share dividends totaling $368 million. Subsequent to December 31st, 2025, the company has purchased another 130,573 of its subordinate voting shares for cancellation at an aggregate cost of $220 million or $1,684.70 per share. In closing, book value per basic share was $1,260 at December 31st, 2025, compared to $1,060 at December 31st, 2024, representing an increase per basic share in the full year of 2025 of 20.5% adjusted for our $15 per common share dividend paid in the first quarter. That concludes my remarks, and I will now turn the call back to Peter.

Thank you, Amy. We are now happy to take any questions that you might have. Denise?

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1. Please unmute your phone and record your name clearly when prompted. To withdraw your question, press star 2. Our first question comes from Steven Boland with Raymond James. Your line is open.

Good morning, everybody. Peter, just maybe a discussion around, you know, some of the premium declines. We saw a Q4 over Q4, softness, competition within certain business lines, and is there any difference between what you're seeing in North America and the global insurers? Thanks.

Sure. Thanks, Stephen. In the fourth quarter, we continue to see softening rates across our companies, and that's making it a little more challenging to grow. But as we said in the past, all our companies are focused on underwriting profit and discipline. We have no incentives to grow the top line throughout the group. But we do benefit greatly from our diversified operations by geography and by product and the wide variety of the markets and segments of our company that our companies participate in allow us to grow in more attractive areas while curtailing activity and more than less attractive ones this is a significant strength for us at a high level we saw price increases in the low single digit level with higher price increases in the casualty lines and declines in property, DNO, and cyber. The property catastrophe business, especially on the reinsurance side, we're seeing the most pressure on pricing. But again, that's coming from very strong margins. In Canada, in Northbridge, we've seen pricing up about 2% in the year. You may know the personal lines are probably up closer to 9%, 10%, but that's not a big part of our business. Crum Forster is about 5.5%. Odyssey, you know, with more of their premium coming from the reinsurance side, it's flat to 2%. And then in Lloyds, we're seeing probably the most pricing pressure. At Britain and Key, pricing is down about 5%. And then Allied World, they're about flat or up 1%. On the international side, it varies across the group. But in a lot of those markets, the pricing tends to be a little less cyclical than, you know, in the North American markets. The one thing, though, when our pricing, you know, when pricing levels aren't there, premium isn't growing, this frees up capital for us. And then capital allocations becomes very important. Historically, we have allocated capital very well. And we continue to have many attractive opportunities to deploy it. This includes buying back our own stock, as we've said before, buying minority interest in our own companies, or investing as we have been in very good companies, our associates, and our non insurance consolidated companies like a sleep country or a peak. So we think we have a lot of great opportunity. As I said, the market we still see softening. But within Fairfax, we have many different sources of earnings, and we can benefit from that. Thank you. Next question, please.

Next question comes from Tom McKinnon with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks very much. Good morning. I asked this question maybe a little over a year ago about sort of the tax rate outlook going forward. And the answer I got was between 22 and 25. Now, in 2024, it was 24%. But in 2025, it was 18%. So I'll ask the question again about a tax rate outlook going forward. And why was 2025 different than sort of that outlook you provided a little more than a year ago? And what is your outlook for it going forward? Thanks.

No, thanks, Tom. Yeah, there's a lot of activity on the tax side, and our tax people in Canada and the United States have been extremely busy. You might have known there's the Pillar 2 tax that has been coming through, and in Canada we have the EIFL taxes. But, Amy, do you want to comment a little bit more on the specifics?

Sure. Thanks, Peter, and thanks for the question, Tom. We would continue to give the advice that was given last year, which is an appropriate range for our our effective tax rate every year going forward. This year, we had some things going through that were unique. One of them would be that we had some significant unrealized mark-to-market gains in India, and those gains attract the capital gains rate that is significantly lower than the 26.5% statutory rate here in Canada. So that was a big driver. There has also been a lot of action by domestic governments in terms of introducing their own minimum tax rates. And with that comes some tax impacts here in Canada when we look at our global minimum tax or our pillar two tax. So those were really the big drivers this year that lowered our tax rate. But I think the advice provided last year still remains to be true.

Thanks, Amy. Yeah, as you know, Tom, we write right across the world, so it really depends where our earnings come from, and that can affect the ultimate tax rate that we pay. Next question, please.

That comes from Bart Jarski with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Great, thanks, and good morning, Peter. Thanks for taking my questions, or my question, I guess. So, Your underwriting income for the year was about $1.8 billion. That's two years in a row now, $1.8. I know you've got the $1.5 plus guidance. So just how are you thinking about that guidance going forward? I heard your commentary around the softening pricing, but we're also seeing, you know, you're earning through the Cal losses and you've got favorable releases. So putting it all together, just wanted to get a look there on the underwriting income guide. Thanks.

Sure. Yeah, no, we're still you know, we still target, you know, 1.5 billion of underwriting profit. That's what we're looking for. You're right in the last two years, it's been a little higher than that one point a little less than 1.8 in 2024, a little more than 1.8 in 2025. But generally speaking, the cat losses have also been relatively benign or, or You know, as expected, we haven't had, you know, we haven't had any major catastrophes. With that said, with our premium base the way it is, we are able to absorb significant amount of catastrophes now versus if you look 10, 15 years ago. But, you know, we're just trying to be conservative. We think our reserves are extremely strong. We just came through a hard market. And as I said in my opening remarks, we've had 19 years of favorable reserve development. I think that we have a great process in place for setting our reserves throughout the group. It's all done at the local levels with oversight at the Fairfax holding company and a good process in place. So I think the 1.5 billion is a good point. Next question, please.

The next question comes from James Goyne with National Bank Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks. go back to the premium growth discussion and maybe get a little bit more nuanced on two particular business lines. So one would be the Odyssey Group down in the fourth quarter 10% and then the offset would be Crum & Forster up 27% in the fourth quarter on gross premiums written. Can you sort of dig into those two businesses a little bit more as to what was driving some of those those results, you know, either new business or on non-renewed accounts, something like that, that could be driving some more outsized performance than just price.

Sure. And I think when you look at it, if you look at our premium volume by quarter, typically, Jamie, the fourth quarter is by far the lowest. You know, the first quarter is usually the highest when we write most of our business. So you're coming off a smaller base. So we don't put a lot of, you know, we don't look a lot on a quarter-to-quarter basis. But for Crum Forrester, premium was up, and it's really on their specialty lines of business, which are less price sensitive. And in Crum, it's really the A&H division there. They've been growing, you know, Dave, through Gary Maggette, they have an outstanding specialty there. And they've been growing not only in the United States, but taking their NH business internationally. So that's a big driver there. On Odyssey, it would probably, it's more on the reinsurance side. Again, it's a fourth quarter, not a ton of business is written. It's more one-one. And so any fluctuations there make, you know, make the percentage change a little emphasized. So I would say those are the two main things. Next question, please.

That comes from Daniel Baldini with Oberon Asset Management. Your line is open.

Thanks. Thanks for taking my call and thanks for the wonderful results. So with that said, my question is, is there any end in sight to these losses from the runoff business? You've disclosed them separately for, I believe, the last 10 years. And when I add them up, it comes to almost $1.6 billion. Now, I understand that there are reserves associated with this business and they produce investment gains. But I can't imagine that when you sort of entered into these deals, you expected losses of this magnitude. So a little bit of color there would be great. Thank you.

Sure. Sure. Good question. A lot of these liabilities we inherited through acquisitions back in the late 90s, early 2000s. and they're really latent liabilities. There are asbestos environmental pollution claims. And we have a specialized team that we've segregated these claims and they're focused on it. I would say personally, they're best in class. They've been managing these liabilities for a long time, but they're very difficult claims. And as I mentioned, In the United States, it's very litigious, and there's continuing, especially on the asbestos front, some of these claims are 30, 40 years old, and we look at them every year. Typically, you can't use general actuarial techniques to come up with the reserves, so it's a matter of reacting to what happens. Denise, are you there?

Thank you. Yes, sir. You may continue. Thank you.

Hi there. Sorry about that. We had a small disconnection, but we're ready to take more questions. Next question, please.

The next question comes from David Herb with Merian Investment Management. Your line is open.

Thank you for taking the question. Fairfax has roughly $1 billion investment in Fairfax, India at current pricing, I believe. And within Fairfax, India, roughly half the portfolio is the airport investment, the IAL. There's been a little bit of discussion historically about taking BIAL, getting it a public listing. And I'm just curious if you could provide an update on that progress. Thank you. Sure.

No, I think that's more of a Fairfax India question. But yeah, the Bangalore Airport is a significant investment for Fairfax India. And one, obviously, we're very excited about. I know they are in the process of having conversations with the regulators, but there's not a lot more that I can say on the IPO process. Thank you, though, for the question. And next question, please.

This question is from Tom McKinnon with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks for taking the follow-up. With respect to the Eurolife transaction, 3.4 billion in assets I assume then are not part of your general fund anymore. Do I have that correct? And where would we see presumably you're making investment interest and dividend income on those assets? So where would we see the – would there be a decline in interest and dividend income going forward with respect to losing those $3.4 billion in assets? And where would that be? Would that be in your interest and dividend income, or would that be in your – I'm just trying to figure out what line. Would that be in your life and runoff business? Where would that show up?

So the majority of that would be in our life and runoff business. The P&C business is remaining with us, so that's going to continue. And, Tom, you know, we're going to get approximately $950 million for the life business, and eventually we'll deploy that, and that will, you know, create earnings off that as well. But generally speaking, yes, it's the interest and dividend income, will come off the life and runoff segment. Amy, anything to add?

The only thing I would add is that health for sale accounting means that we just have one line on our balance sheet for the health for sale assets and one line for the health for sale liabilities. And we continue to mark to market those investments and record any income earned on those investments until the transaction is closed.

Thank you, Amy, and thank you, Tom. Next question, please.

Next question comes from Jay McGloin with National Bank Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Just wanted to go back to the capital deployments. And you mentioned you had capital freed up here with a soccer market. So buybacks have been fairly active over Q4 and now year to date. So maybe talk through, you know, how you're looking at buybacks in the next few months here through 2026.

the timing of that minority interest if you can just refresh that and what does the total return swap how does that factor into your capital deployment plan sure well um i guess like i said with the premiums flattening off it does produce um it can produce excess capital at our insurance operations that would you know produce uh more dividends up to the holding company um First and foremost, you know, our financial strength that we always said is that's our number one key. And that's, you know, to have significant cash in the holding company. We don't want any long-term, you know, any debt maturities for the foreseeable future. And then our line of credit. So financial strength is number one. Number two is, like you said, we've been buying back our own stock, you know, at these prices where we think... We're pleased to do that. We always look at what the intrinsic value is, and that factors into our capital allocation decision making. On the Fairfax TRS, we've always said that that's an investment. We continue to believe it's a very good investment, so we continue to hold that. And then buying back Allied and Odyssey, I think, again, both companies we know very well. They're both performing exceptionally well. So, you know, we'd like to do that over time as well. And so those are really the things we're looking at today. Always subject to change, of course, Jamie. But thank you. And next question, please.

The next question comes from Bart Jarski with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Great. Thanks for taking the follow-up. Maybe a question for Wade on the investment book. So, you know, we're seeing quite a dislocation in markets today, and so are you thinking about maybe shifting some of the positions, taking advantage and being opportunistic in this environment? I'd love to get some color on that. Thanks.

You know, I guess I would say we have a very robust, skilled investment team. And we're constantly looking at all securities. We underwrite for 15%. And as you say, I mean, maybe you're talking about the software and AI. But we're working very hard. And anytime we uncover any opportunities, we, you know, we will act. So, you know, that's what I'd say. We're watching it all very closely, as you can imagine.

Thank you, Bart. Next question, please.

Next question comes from Theo Caranthales with Private Investor. Your line is open.

Thank you, and good morning. How are you balancing share repurchases versus holding company liquidity? And what valuation trigger would make you significantly more aggressive on buybacks?

That's a difficult question. Again, we discuss it internally all the time. We have many options, right, with excess capital, with excess dividends coming up. And all I really can say at these prices today, we continue to buy back our stock. We did a significant amount last year. But going forward, things change. And we are constantly evaluating that and very difficult to put a number on it. But thank you for your question. And we'll take one more question, please.

Thank you, and the final question does come from Benjamin Graham Sanderson. He's an individual investor. Your line is open.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. New shareholders still getting aligned with the way you guys think, loving it so far. You guys seem like risk masters, and I'm very much enjoying reading about your history and current actions going forward. Question is a very broad one. What currently are the biggest systemic risks you see to the Fairfax system and both in insurance and investments? How are you approaching that to mitigate them? And specifically, how does that relate to the Kennedy Wilson partnership? How does that partnership de-risk the system, if at all? Thank you.

No, thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, no, I think, you know, there's... There's two things in this business, and it's the we have the insurance operations. And what we built over the last 40 years, I think, is quite substantial, very difficult to replicate. We have essentially 25 separate insurance companies, writing 33 billion across the globe. and some of the best insurance professionals running these companies. On average, our CEOs and presidents have almost 20 years experience. And that includes, you know, last year we had a succession of five separate CEOs that went seamlessly. The always concerned on the insurance side on the catastrophe exposure, which we monitor constantly, and of course, reserves. And again, we have a very strong track record on the reserving side. On the investment side, you know, we've, we've had a long term track record there, I think the investment philosophy of value investing serves us very well. with protection on the downside and has been a significant strength over time. On Kennedy Wilson, we have a 12-year or 16-year, I guess, relationship with Kennedy Wilson. They've effectively managed our real estate and mortgage business over that time period and has provided us with outstanding returns. And we don't have that capability, at least at that size and scale, in-house. So, you know, we're very excited what they bring to the table and looking very forward to working with them going forward. So, thank you for your question. And if there's no more questions, I'll pass it back to Denise.

That does conclude today's conference call. We appreciate all of you dialing in for today's call. Have a wonderful day and weekend. You may disconnect. Thank you.