Killam Apartment Real Estate Investment Trust

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Killam Apartment Real Estate Investment Trust second quarter 2025 financial results conference call. At this time, all lines are in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If at any time during this call you require assistance, please press star zero for the operator. This call is being recorded on August 7th, 2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Philip Fraser, President and CEO. Please go ahead.

Good morning, and thank you for joining Killam Apartment REIT's second quarter 2025 conference call. I am here today with Robert Richardson, Executive Vice President, Dale Noseworthy, Chief Financial Officer, and Aaron Cleveland, Senior Vice President of Finance. Plies to accompany today's call are available on the investor relations section of our website, under Events and Presentations. I will now ask Erin to read our cautionary statement.

Thank you, Philip. This presentation may contain forward-looking statements with respect to Killam Apartment REIT and its operations, strategy, financial performance conditions, or otherwise. The actual results and performance of Killam discussed here today could differ materially from those expressed or implied by such statements. Such statements involve numerous inherent risks and uncertainties And although Hillam management believes that the expectations reflected in the forward-looking statements are reasonable, there can be no assurance that future results, levels of activity, performance, or achievements will occur as anticipated. For further information about the inherent risks and uncertainties in respect to forward-looking statements, please refer to Hillam's most recent annual information form and other securities regulatory filings found on CDAR+. All forward-looking statements made today speak only as of the date which this presentation refers, and Killam does not intend to update or revise any such statements unless otherwise required by applicable securities law.

Thank you, Erin. We are very pleased with our strong financial and operating results for the second quarter of 2025. Killam delivered FFO of 32 cents per unit, a 6.7% increase from 30 cents per unit in Q2 2024. We achieved 6.7% same property NOI growth across the portfolio, which included 6.6% same property NOI growth in our apartment portfolio, 10.1% same property NOI growth in our manufactured home community portfolio, and 3.4% same property NOI growth for our commercial properties. The multi-family fundamentals in Canada are still very strong. And our same property apartment occupancy at the end of the second quarter was 97.5%, slightly lower than the 97.8 in Q2 last year. During the second quarter, we made meaningful progress towards our strategic targets listed on slide three. And we are on track to meet these targets by the end of the year. We remain very optimistic about the future of the Canadian apartment market. even if some markets see rental rates move down as supply catches up in the supply-demand equilibrium of the particular market. We will continue to focus on growing our earnings, cash flow, and the underlying value of our assets. Dale will now take us through the financial results, followed by Robert, who will provide an update on our commercial portfolio. I will conclude with an update on our current and recent developments in our capital allocation strategy. I will now hand it over to Dale

Thanks, Phil. Key highlights of Kiln's Q2 financial performance can be found on slide four. Kiln achieved solid earnings growth in Q2, including an increase in same property revenue of 6%. This top line growth reflects continued demand for apartments in our markets. While many large metropolitan cities have experienced pressure at the top end of the rental market, Kiln's portfolio has demonstrated its resilience, and we continue to see rental increases above historic norms. In the second quarter, as seen on slide five, we achieved a combined weighted average rental increase of 6.1%, which comprised of an average 13% rental lift on units, which turned in the period, and an average 3.7% increase on renewals. In July, we continued to see strong rent growth with 9% rental increases on turnover. We're confident in our ability to meet our revenue growth target of 5% to 6% for 2025. Our leasing teams are nimble, finding there is strong demand for apartments when priced competitively. We've seen an uptick in rental incentives as a percentage of total revenue in Q2. Ontario accounted for almost half of the total incentives, with the most significant increase attributable to Civic 66, which was completed in 2023. Alberta made up a third of the total incentives, with the majority attributable to the lease up of Nolan Hill Phase 2. Killam aims to strategically maintain occupancy levels by offering targeted incentives as required. The use of rental incentives is expected to continue through the second half of 2025 in select markets and properties. Killam's Atlantic markets continue to outperform. with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia leading the way in occupancy, rental rate growth, and NOI growth. Looking ahead, we expect this trend to continue as Kiln's Atlantic Canadian portfolio benefits from a diversified portfolio offering competitive and affordable rental alternatives. Slide seven includes our mark-to-market spread for the portfolio and by region. Halifax and Kitchener-Waterloo continue to lead with spreads over 20%. Overall, we estimate our mark-to-market spread is 13% across the portfolio, which has come in over the last few quarters as asking rents have decreased slightly and following the quarterly rental rate increases achieved. As expected, we're seeing an increase in turnover this year. Turnover year-to-date is approximately 12%, and we anticipate approximately 20% turnover for the year, up from 18% in 2024. In Q2, total same property operating expenses increased by 4.5% as detailed on slide eight. The most significant cost pressure in the quarter was property taxes, up 5% due to higher assessed values and regional mill rates. Utility costs moderated in Q2, up 3.2% compared to 7.9% in Q1 as we started to realize the impact of the removal of carbon taxes. despite higher quarter-over-quarter natural gas prices in the Maritimes. After a 6% rise in utility and fuel costs so far this year, Kilham anticipates lower energy expense pressures for the rest of 2025 and into 2026. The removal of carbon tax is estimated to reduce natural gas costs through Q1 2026. In addition, Kilham continues to invest in solar panels and energy management initiatives to maximize operating margins and offset inflationary pressures. Year to date, Kiln's same property NOI is up 7.2%. We anticipate NOI growth closer to 5% during the second half of the year as rent growth gradually moderates. Overall, we expect same property NOI growth for the year to be above 6%. As Phil noted, we generated FFO per unit of 32 cents in the quarter, up 6.7% from the second quarter last year. The increase was driven by strong NOI growth and the lease up of recently completed developments. Kilns three most recently completed developments have contributed meaningfully to year-to-date performance, adding 2.7 million in FFO growth compared to the first half of 24. Offsetting these gains with higher interest expense compared to Q2 2024. However, the increase in interest expense is moderating. with a smaller impact on earnings in Q2 this year compared to the increases experienced in 2024 due to lower balances on our credit facility combined with a decrease in variable interest rates. AFFO per unit was up 8% in the quarter to 27 cents. We expect AFFO growth to continue to exceed FFO growth looking forward as capital from selling older properties is reinvested in newer, more efficient buildings. Slide nine includes average apartment mortgage rates by year versus prevailing CMHC insured mortgage rates. During Q2, Killam refinanced 94.6 million of maturing mortgages with 119.2 million of new debt at a weighted average interest rate of 3.52%. As part of our debt management strategy, we've actively increased our use of CMHC insured mortgages. At the end of Q2, 81.5% of all mortgage debt across the portfolio was CMHC insured, compared to 94.6% a year ago. We expect to continue to increase the amount of CMHC insured mortgages as non-insured mortgages come up for renewal. We're pleased to show another quarter of strengthening our balance sheet metrics, as shown on slide 10. At June 30th, debt as a percentage of total assets was 39.6%, which represents the sixth consecutive order of reducing our debt balance. We've also improved our debt to normalized EBITDA to 9.58 times. I will now turn the call over to Robert, who will discuss our commercial portfolio initiatives in more detail.

Thank you, Dale, and good morning, everyone. In the second quarter, Kiln's commercial portfolio saw 4.8% revenue growth, driven by a 50 basis point increase in commercial occupancy to 94.6%, and higher rental rates on renewals, Our Q2 2025 net effective rental rate on 17,500 square feet of new leasing was $24 per square foot. As well, for this quarter, we achieved a 16% weighted average increase in rental rates for 8,000 square feet of renewing tenants. Year to date, we have leased 28,400 square feet of new space and renewed 33,600 square feet of existing tenants for a combined 62,000 square feet of activity. We continue to see strong leasing activity at our commercial properties, including Lululemon's first Prince Edward Island location at Royalty Crossing. Further establishing Royalty Crossing is Charlottetown's key retail destination. Additionally, we leased 17,000 square feet for a 10 year term to the Prince Edward Island government for a patient medical care center, as well as the mental health alliance office. Consequently, we are now negotiating with a 2,500 square foot pharmacy to support these medical services. We have also signed two food users to 10 year leases for the ground floor retail space at our 171 suite civic 66 property in Kitchener. When Killam acquired the 306,000 square foot westbound place in Waterloo, Ontario in 2018, please see slide 12. The site's 16.6 acres of development potential was the main attraction. This and the fact that 82% or 250,000 square feet of the center had a weighted average lease term remaining of 8.4 years with the following tenants. Sun life was 197,000 square feet. loblaws with 33 000 square feet and michaels with 20 000 square feet made for a compelling purchase sunlight has formally advised kiln it will it will vacate west mount place march 31st 2026 we have been working with the national commercial real estate brokerage since the start of 2025 and we are experiencing very strong leasing interest active inquiries include insurance the technology companies professional office users a pharmacy, a grocer, large footprint health and fitness uses, to name a few. The potential tenants space requirements range from 10,000 square feet to over 100,000 square feet. Based on the level of inquiries and given Westmount Place's prime location with proximity to Uptown Waterloo and surrounding university campuses, excellent parking and transit access, ground floor retail space having 18 feet clear height with two loading docks, and three upper office floors that have abundant natural light from floor to ceiling glazing. The former Sunlight premise has much to offer. Now that Sunlight's lease is ending and sub lighting is off the table, Kiln can better attract tenants canvassing the market for near or longer term leasing options. Most recently, late last month, Killam was able to respond to a request for proposals from a large international tenant that could take occupancy in 2026. No response yet, but we expect to hear back shortly. Killam is budgeting to replace the net operating income generated by the Sun Life tenancy within 18 to 24 months by leasing 50,000 square feet by the end of Q2 2026 and 50,000 square feet each quarter thereafter until full. Ambitious, yes, but we were ambitious when we bought 100% of Royalty Crossing in 2019, a 370,000 square foot enclosed mall that was generating 2.2 million net operating income at that time. Today, it is tracking to deliver $5.5 million of net operating income in 2025. Let's take it for 2026. The sunlight space would cost tilling approximately 3 million net operating income. However, we expect to attract several high credit tenants before June 30th, 2026. We will be in a better position to update you on our prospects when we report in Q3 2025. I will now hand you back to Philip to provide an update on our capital allocation strategy.

Thank you, Robert. During the second quarter, we completed the sale of 318 units in Gander and Corner Brook, Newfoundland. for $18.5 million with net proceeds of $14.4 million. And 128 units in Charlottetown PEI for $15.9 million with net proceeds of $9.2 million. Subsequent to the end of the second quarter on July the 3rd, Killam sold a 60-unit townhouse complex in PEI to King Square Development Corp., a nonprofit government-funded charity, for $9 million. We expect to close the sale of a portfolio of properties by Friday in PEI to a local buyer containing 521 units for 81.9 million with net proceeds of 40.3 million. This will effectively complete our PEI apartment disposition program. Looking ahead to the remainder of the year, we have one firm agreement to sell 99 units in St. John. New Brunswick for $17 million, which is expected to close on or before the end of September 2025. On July 22nd, Killam purchased three buildings containing 114 units in Fredericton, New Brunswick for $28.7 million from RJC Properties, Inc. Killam has purchased several other buildings from this vendor since 2011. The property contains a mix of one, two, and three bedroom units, with an average size ranging from 839 square feet to 1600 square feet. The average in-place rent for the property is $1,545 per month, or $1.32 per square foot, making these units very desirable with a runway for strong organic growth. On July 29th, Kellum completed the purchase of the remaining 50% interest in Frontier Latitude and Luma apartment buildings located in Ottawa. from our JV partner, RioCamp. The combined purchase price was $136 million, which included the assumption of debt. We are pleased to report that the Carrot's first tenants moved in during June, and that it was substantially complete on July 1st. As of today, the building is 60% leased. The Carrot, as shown on slides 16 and 17, is Kiln's first all-electric heating and cooling system building. using heat pumps and electricity, so the building does not require natural gas for day-to-day operations, which leads to higher margins and operational efficiencies. As shown on slides 18 and 19, construction continues at Eventide, our 55-unit building in downtown Halifax. Completion is expected by Q3, 2026. Slides 20 to 22 show progress today at Prywood, our 128-unit wood frame building located in Waterloo, adjacent to our existing Northfield Gardens property. Completion is scheduled for June 2026. Releasing for both developments will start in October. In Halifax, we are working on our 95-unit development at Victoria Gardens and 150-unit development at our Harlington Crescent community. These developments will utilize vacant land on our existing sites, creating additional density without displacing existing tenants. We aim to begin at least one of the above-mentioned developments by the end of the year, and we are looking to use ACLP financing programs from CMHC, which reduces the overall development risk by providing below-market interest-rate construction loans. I'd like to take a moment to discuss the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge market, highlighting our investments in the region and its importance to our long-term growth strategy. We made our first investment in the region by purchasing two apartment buildings in May of 2010. We have since grown our portfolio to nine properties, including Westmount Place. These properties contain over 1,500 units, of which we have built one-third of them. In addition to Brightwood, We own land in the region with the development potential to build over 1200 units. We have installed solar panels at five of these nine properties, which currently has a 1.2 megawatts of capacity with an average electrical rate of 13 cents per kilowatt hour plus HST. These projects are expected to yield over $180,000 in utility cost savings annually, and their production represents approximately 25% of our common area electrical consumption in the region. We plan to add solar panels at the other four buildings at Northfield Gardens in Brightwood, as shown on slide 23, increasing our total regional capacity to 1.8 megawatts, representing 30% of our common area electrical consumption in the region. To conclude, we are very pleased with our Q2 2025 performance. We remain committed to investing in high-quality assets and developments, executing our overall strategy, and creating value for all our unit holders. I want to thank our employees for their hard work and dedication. I will now open up the call for questions.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star key followed by the number one on your touch-tone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star key followed by the number two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question. Your first question comes from Michael Marquitas of BMO. Your line is now open.

Thank you, operator. Just with respect to PEI, it looks like following the pending sale, you'll be down to about 150 units. Bill, I was just wondering if you could comment on your plan for the rest of the apartments in that market, and then what that means, if anything, for Royalty Crossing as well. Thank you.

Yes. Good morning, Mike. I think once we do this transaction today or tomorrow, We will only really have a few apartments at three different locations, eight, 14, and a 60-unit. So we're almost down about half of what you just said. And the plan is to basically run them out of the – from the commercial side at the mall. And in terms of the future of the mall, we're still working on that. We still have huge opportunity in terms to add a little bit in terms of some pad space. there's still a little bit of vacancy throughout. So we're still working on trying to increase the NOI at that center.

Okay. So if I hear you correctly, you've got more runway to go with Royalty Crossing. But the remaining apartments there, is the plan to just divest those in the near future?

Oh, yeah. I mean, they're still on the list to sort of sell. But I think this big transaction, it really does reduce our our ownership there down to very little.

Right. Okay. That makes sense. Thanks for that. Just with respect to the renewal spreads, I guess last year we'd seen a pretty nice healthy uptick in renewal spreads in Q2 versus Q1 just because of the large proportion in Ontario. We didn't really see that this year, but it seems like you still had a pretty healthy mark-to-market in certain markets, specifically Halifax and New Brunswick. So, just curious if you could give some thoughts as to why we didn't see the same uptick in renewal spreads this year that we did last.

Well, partially. New Brunswick plays a factor in that, I'd say, because we didn't have rent restrictions in New Brunswick last year versus this year. So that's part of it. Also, when we look in Alberta, I mean, that's one area that we know that, you know, the mark-to-market is not as strong as it had been. So although we don't have rent controls there on the renewal, it's not the same story as it was last year in terms of renewals. So I think those are overall. Same with, well, I guess we have control, the rent control in BC. So I'd say those are two of the factors that have changed compared to last year.

Okay.

And would you guys still be close to 5% on renewals? Yes. Okay. Awesome. I'll turn it back. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Your next question comes from Jonathan Keltcher of TD Cowan.

Your line is now open.

Thanks. Good morning. First question just on Westmount Place. Is there any subleasing there right now, an opportunity for you guys?

Okay.

Okay. And then what's, as you lease this up, what sort of budget do you have for leasing costs and TI's?

Just deciding if I want to share that information to tell you the truth.

You know, the market will demand what it's, we have a mix of office and retail there, so it'll be different, but overall, I'd like to think that we can get away with nothing more than a round number, $10 million.

Okay. That is helpful. And then, Phil, just on the capital recycling, I guess the RioCan stuff wasn't really anticipated at the beginning of the year, or maybe it was. But, like, how should we think about acquisitions versus dispositions? Are you – Are you going to be roughly equal as we go forward over the next, I guess, one to two years?

The first part of your question, Jonathan, it wasn't anticipated, but we were very happy to sort of look at that opportunity and end up acquiring all of it. And I think, again, we would have been saying a year ago that, you know, we got this plan for dispositions, and it's the third year, and so overall, Over the three years, we've done about 2,500 units and about 300 and maybe 40 or $60 million of dispositions. And so, we have still opportunities to sort of sell a number of assets next year. And we're almost back to what I would have been saying a year ago, because again, we'll look at it once we do have that cash, whether we have any money left on the line. whether we're looking at the NCIB or acquisition opportunities.

Okay.

So, if we skip ahead a couple quarters to your strategic targets for next year, could we expect to see sort of sell X dollars worth of non-core assets and an acquisition target creep back in there?

You know what, it's a little early for that. I think we'll have a better understanding of what we want to do by the third quarter from, you know, 2026 acquisition or disposition targets.

Okay. That's it for me. I'll turn it back. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you.

Your next question comes from Jimmy Shan of ODT Capital Market.

Your line is now open.

RBC, I suppose. Just with respect to Halifax rent, the new build, I think you mentioned, is coming in north of $2,500 a month. What's been the recent trend in market rent in terms of the new build that you've seen? Has it changed dramatically more or less than existing apartment buildings?

Sorry, just to clarify, you're asking what in the market asking rents have been on new supply delivered?

Correct.

Well, I mean, we hear, I mean, it's basically a lot of these would have pro formas that are between 2,000 and 2,500. And the best that we sort of can gauge is looking at their websites and seeing what the asking rents are for all these new products. And it kind of varies depending on the location and the size of the units. But basically, we know that a lot of the new rents are over $2,000 asking in the market and continue at that level.

Yeah, I guess really what I was trying to get a sense of is whether or not you're seeing a little bit more pressure in the newer builds versus the existing product. certainly a trend that we're seeing here in Toronto.

So any comment with respect to that?

I mean, I think we've talked about this the last few quarters, and I think it continues that, you know, as we're asking more rents, people have more options. So I'd say, you know, There are some incentives being offered by competitors in the market and, you know, even select buildings in this market for us. Not very many, but there are some. And I'd say that there's more opportunity, of course, as the rents go down for rent growth. So I'd say there's more pressure at the top end than more affordable. And I'd say it's been felt pretty consistent for the last couple of quarters on that front.

Okay. and within your portfolio. I would say that on the new builds, there's maybe a bit of a slowdown in the pace of LISA.

So we're seeing that. On the peninsula, less so, but more if you're suburban, they see a bit more pressure.

But overall, the market is absorbing the new product. Okay. That's helpful.

Within your Halifax portfolio, rental incentives, is that still a fairly modest amount, if any?

Very modest. Yeah. Yeah, most of the incentives we're seeing is Ontario and the West.

Right. Okay. And one more. Sorry, just look at our average rent. It still is in the $1,595 in Halifax.

Yeah. This is quite a bit of a buffer. Yes.

With respect to CARIC, is that performing in line with your budget? It seems like there's been a significant amount of pre-leasing. It seems like it's leasing up reasonably well.

Yes, and it's leasing up.

It's leasing, sorry, it's leasing up to our in-line pro-forma budget for sure. And a lot of that has to do with that we really did start a lot earlier than we have in the past. And it really has made it a good sort of dent into the overall leasing program.

All right. Thank you. Thanks.

Our next caller is Kyle Stanley from Desjardins.

Your line is now open.

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Maybe just building on Jimmy's line of questioning in Halifax, like what are you seeing from the other operators today? You know, is there a general desire to preserve rate or has the focus really shifted to maintaining occupancy? You know, just trying to determine, you know, just given the fact that there's fewer mom and pop condo investors impacting that market relative to maybe some of the others, like how things progress in the next, you know, 12 to 18 months.

I think they're preserving rate.

They don't have to come off it very much, but I think that that is their main goal is to preserve rate, and the market seems to be cooperating for the most part.

Okay. Okay. Thank you for that.

I didn't see it in the presentation, but I think in the past, you provided the turnover detail or the breakdown of leases turning and the length of stay, but I was just wondering, Is there anything you're seeing in the market today that would suggest maybe the mix of suites that turns over over the next 12 to 24 months, you know, could skew a little more to the ones with the deeper embedded rent? Or is the view that, you know, that kind of mark to market likely stays intact and maybe rental levels settle a bit lower than where they are today, but still above kind of long-term average as a result?

I think it's pretty consistent with what we've seen in terms of approximately half of the turns have been tenants for approximately a year. So when we look at what's happening as those units turn, we probably have, what is it, 15 to 20%. Some of them are rolling down, which is why we're seeing, you know, a decrease in our average that we're able to achieve. That mark to market does look at those, right? That contemplates that when we're looking at that mark to market of 13, that takes into account those units that we would have leased in the last year that would be at or maybe some above market.

But very little in a really rolling down in Halifax. Agreed. And I think Kyle's asking about health.

Oh, sorry. Sorry.

You're right. Yeah. Okay. No, that's very helpful. And maybe just the last question, you know, I think that there's a lot of talk on obviously the revenue growth outlook and it still being very healthy but slightly lower than it's been over the last few years. But it looks like OpEx will be the lever over the next maybe year or two that can help enhance NOI growth. So I'm just thinking or curious, you know, what's your outlook for OpEx as we kind of get into 2026?

And, you know, what are you doing or what more could you potentially do to help with that?

Yeah, I mean, I think when we look forward to next year from a utility perspective, with the removal of the carbon tax and having that benefit in Q126, we would hope that we would see that overall utility expense be lower than what we had this year. In the mind of this year was a very cold winter as well. So, year over year, you may benefit from that. I think on the regular operating expense side, you know, there's still opportunities within our portfolio. you know, coast to coast to manage those expenses. And then property taxes, that one, you know, always up in the air. But I think there may be a bit of opportunity. We're hearing maybe some assessments may stay in certain regions a little more flat next year. So, we're going to see that compress a bit as well. So, I think there is opportunity when we look to 26 compared to where 25 is coming in today.

And even insurance is actually, you know, we've had a win on insurance in terms of rate coming down. We haven't seen that in quite a while. So, you know, that we're starting to see more leveling off of expense pressure.

Yeah. And then, Kyle, the last thing is just as I was talking on the sort of the first part of the call, every time we do a solar install, it's reducing those operating expenses on the electricity side. And they do save money long term, and they do it as soon as it gets them up and running. So, highlighting what we've been doing and Basically, the kitchenware loo is a big plus. Obviously, if we had solar panels and PEI that we will no longer own, but we're quickly sort of backfilling that from a company-wide point of view. We've got a number of them going in in New Brunswick right now and also west in Alberta. So, all that just is a plan to reduce the overall consumption and cost on our expense side that we can control.

Margin expansion, too, like with the sale in PEI, you know, we've seen that margin move up nicely, and that should continue to grow, which is really going to help in terms of making its way to the NOI line.

Exactly. Right. Okay. That's a good point. Thank you for all that. Very helpful. I will turn it back.

Okay. Your next question comes from Matt Cornick of National Bank Financial.

Your line is now open.

Good morning, guys. I apologize if I missed it, but is it possible to give a ballpark cap rate on the dispositions and PEI?

Sure. 5.27.

That's a pretty precise ballpark. Okay. Thank you. And then just on the CapEx side, again, second quarter in a row where It's been lower. It looks like it's mostly in the building improvement and other, not necessarily the suite area. But is that something that's a function of the age of the portfolio, or is there a proactive approach to kind of spending less on building improvements at this point?

Did you say that again?

Oh, just in terms of CapEx, it seems like building improvement spend is down. I mean, total CapEx is down this year relative to last year, but relative to kind of historic norms as well. Just interested in what's driving kind of the lower CapEx spend at this point.

It's just the timing of the projects. We will finish the year very similar to the last two years in terms of total investment on capital.

Okay, fair enough. And then on suite repositioning, I know in the past you've kind of broken out rents you're achieving on kind of standard terms versus the terms where you're putting a little bit of capex into suite renewal. Can you give us a sense of how that looks today and your desire or plan to do more or less kind of suite investment going forward?

Yeah, I think we're, you know, 40 to 50% rent growth in terms of those repositioning. And there are still opportunity for those. I think we will end around 250 this year. So, but we are, you know, we're looking to make sure that that capital investment that we get the return compared to if we did a little bit less, what we could get. So, but the rent.

We've done about half of that so far this year.

Thanks. Maybe last one. I mean, we've gone through a period where you've had outsized rent growth. I don't think anybody expected that that would last forever. But as you see things kind of normalizing, what is your expectation if inflation is, call it, 2.5%? Where would you think rent growth kind of stabilizes that over a medium-term basis?

I think three to four, medium term.

I won't hold you to that, but it seems reasonable.

No, not for next year, but looking out a few years, that's where I would expect.

Appreciate it. I'll turn it back. Thanks, Anne.

Your next question comes from Mark Rothschild from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.

Thanks, and good morning, guys. With construction costs coming down in general, are you seeing this impacting the yields at all on development projects, and does this, would this possibly lead to maybe a greater emphasis on investing even more in some new projects in the near term?

It can, depending on where it's located, but also in some locations, if the costs are going down or you're switching from concrete to wood, you basically, even if you target a five all-cash yield with lower cost per door, it just means that you're asking rent starting out is that much lower and easier to sort of be absorbed and more affordable. And again, if you're tapping into the CMHC programs, where there is going to be a component of affordability, then it just makes that overall project that much easier to start to build from a financing construction cost and then a fully leased out new building.

Okay. I think I understand that.

And then just maybe one other question. it seems like potential for a turnover to increase. Is this something that you think is likely to happen? And would it be market dependent or property age, maybe quality of building dependent? And how do you see that impacting perhaps your revenue growth over the next year?

Sorry, Mark, what was the first part of that question?

Turnover. It just seems like there's potential for turnover to increase overall. I'm curious if you're actually seeing that or expecting that to happen. It just How would that vary by market and maybe age of building?

Yeah, I think, I mean, your first comment, we are seeing where we went down from our pre-COVID 33% down to 18% last year, and we think we're going to be around 20% this year. So, that's the bottom for us, and it's starting to sort of trend upwards. And, again, if you're looking to break that up, obviously, I think the highest turnover is still in the Alberta area. market, because at one time that was 50%. Ontario will probably be on the low end, and we are just starting to trend up in Atlantic Canada a bit.

Maybe just clarifying that or following up on that, do you see that potentially helping your revenue growth pick up over the next year, maybe offset slower rent growth?

It will in Atlantic Canada, because again, a lot of the sort of the the turnover will be units where we do have a good healthy mark to market for sure.

Okay, great. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Your next question comes from Gaurav Mathura of Green Street.

Your line is now open.

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Just one question from me. Just given the conversation around moderating rent growth, Could you perhaps, you know, tell us where you expect markets to be by the end of the year and what that effect would be on turnover rates as well?

I mean, I think if we're at 13% now, I would, as we continue to rent growth and if we assume market rents stay relatively stable, maybe they, you know, over the next, you six months, we could end the year, maybe it's 12% mark to market, I'd say, would be my guess. And then impact on turnover. I mean, I think that what we're seeing now, as Phil just talked about, I think we'll end up just over 20%. And, you know, we're already seeing the impact. People have choice today where they didn't have a year ago, two years ago. So, you know, people can move and find a place to live. So I think we're already seeing that impact. I don't see a big change in the next six months.

Right. Thank you very much. I'll turn back to the operator.

Your next question comes from Michael Marquitas of BMO.

Please go ahead.

Thanks, operator. Just a couple of follow-ups for me. I might be reading too much into this, but I think you said 3% to 4% sort of your estimate for medium-term rental growth, but you said not next year. And I'm just curious if not next year means better than 3% to 4% or lower than 3% to 4%.

Oh, I think 26 will be better than three to four.

Okay. I'm not as nice as Mike.

Especially when we look at revenue growth, because as we start even this quarter, we're already going to benefit half the year next year for what we're doing currently. So that's why I think it takes a little while.

It's maybe even two years out. Yeah. Okay. No, I appreciate that. Thanks. Makes sense. Okay, and then just maybe circling back to Westmount, I guess if I do the math, I think you said 3 million of NOI on the 197, so that's a net rent of maybe just a little over $15. You gave us sort of a ballpark, Rob, on CapEx, but I was just wondering if you gave us sort of a ballpark on where you expect rents to actually come out once it's all said and done.

So what we know in that market, the office rents is on a gross basis between, say, $30 and $32. On a retail basis, it would be, excuse me, say, $25 to $35. And we think that the market, what we're seeing right now on the retail side, we're told that the market's about 5% vacant. So, we think we can get to the higher end of that range. And we have 90,000 square feet on the ground floor at this building. So there's a real opportunity there. And we have a number of inquiries that are geared towards the retail side. So we'll see how that plays out. And on the office side, we also have quite a few inquiries. In fact, we would have made a response to our request for proposals last week. And it was for a tenant that's over 100,000 feet. So we're in the range of the market for us. working with the existing rent, the delta should be 25% to 50% higher when you talk about the net rent.

No, that's really useful. Thanks for that. So I guess presumably, because I'm just looking at where this sits on the side, it's better for you to release it as commercial space than to incorporate it and try to get zoning for additional multi. That's the overtime there.

Yes. That building is valuable. And so, not that, frankly, from a green perspective, it's definitely the right thing to do. And so, we're happy to work with it. The former tenant, Sun Life, maintained it very well. It has a massive generator. So, it's something we can work with. And we're seeing, like I say, a lot of inbound calls about what we can do there. We're pretty optimistic.

Okay, and then just given the cadence of the, you know, what your program, and I get it's just a plan structure, but it sounds like the 3 million annualized impact, that certainly won't be what you expect to have for a four-year basis, because I guess they leave at the end of March, and then you expect to get some leasing done in Q2, and then they're out.

Right. The tenant's in place until the end of March. So that's good. And we're in the market talking to a number of potential tenants. So we'd like to think we can get that done. And I would say in terms of the ability to execute here, I do look at Royalty Crossing. And we've done a tremendous number of deals there over the last four years, five years. And so we have the ability to do it. And we've proven it. So we're looking forward to this opportunity.

Yeah. And again, the other thing, Mike, it's been a very interesting exercise over the last couple of years with the current retail that we have in office and the demand because of the location and taking that and comparing it to what we want to do from a development on the apartment side. So we've owned it now for almost eight years, seven years, and we finally got the first building up and open. We got plans for, you know, in the drawing process. short-term, long-term of phase two and phase three. And we know that we will have enough land to do our 1,200 plus the building that we've got up and running. So, it's just about how we phase this in, what type of tenant that we want there, and how that complements what we're going to be doing on the multi-res side, which is our main business. And overall, we just think that Even if we didn't know it when we bought this center years ago, this is a very good location. So, that helps a lot.

I'd like to highlight one more thing on this site, Mike, that you take a look at the vacancy in the KWC area, it's north of 20%, call it 22%. But this asset is located in Waterloo Core, and it only has 3.5% base, and that's about 50,000 feet. We're not aware of another block of available vacancy that is as large as ours that's called for around number 200,000 feet. So that may be one of the drivers for some tenants to say, you know, that can work for us and we'd like to take a look at it.

Is the 200,000 square feet, that's all office? Because I think you said there's some retail ground floor opportunity there as well.

It's a mix. Actually, the ground floor is The ground floor of this building was originally a, it was a mall. I'm trying to think of the retail, the main retail tenant. Yeah. So, it has that square footage, and then it goes up. The next three floors are 34,000 feet each. So, you got 100,000 feet there, and you get the 90,000 on the retail side. So, we have flexibility.

Okay. Got it. Okay. And just from an accounting perspective, while you're going through the really soon side, will you be able to capitalize the OPEX while you're re-tenanting that property? That's a technical deal. I don't know if you have an answer for that or not.

It's a very good question. Stay tuned. We're looking into it. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. All right. Thank you.

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Philip Fraser.

Please continue.

Thank you. This concludes Q2 2025 analyst call. Thank you for listening and participating today. We look forward to reporting our Q3 2025 financial results on November 5th, 2025.

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.