OR Royalties Inc.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Osisko Gold Royalties Q4 and Year 2020 Results Conference Call. After the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Please note that this call is being recorded today, February the 25th, 2021, at 10 a.m. Eastern Time. Today on the call, we have Mr. Sandeep Singh, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Frédéric Ruel, Chief Financial Officer and Vice President, Finance. I would now like to turn the meeting over to your host for today's call, Mr. Sandeep Singh. Bonjour, Mesdames et Messieurs, et bienvenue à l'appel conférence des résultats du quatrième trimestre et de l'année 2020 de redevances orifères au Cisco limité. Après la présentation, nous procéderons à une séance de questions et réponses. Si vous désirez poser une question, veuillez appuyer sur la touche étoile suivie du numéro 1. Veuillez prendre note que cet appel est enregistré aujourd'hui le 25 février 2021 à 10 h, heure de l'Est. Nous avons sur l'appel aujourd'hui M. Sandeep Singh, président et chef de la direction, et M. Frédéric Ruel, chef de la direction financière et vice-président finance. I would now like to hand over to your host, Mr. Sandeep Singh.

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. Bonjour à tous et merci pour l'intérêt dans notre conférence téléphonique ce matin. Thank you for taking the time for an update on our Q4 and 2020 full-year results. Je suis Sandeep Singh, président et chef de la direction. Je suis accompagné de So Fred and I will walk you through the results this morning, and then Sean will also be available during the Q&A. The presentation I'm following is on our website, so please, if you haven't already, you can pick it up there, and I'll do my best to refer to page numbers as I'm going through it, starting with The forward-looking statements on slide two, please be mindful that we will be making forward-looking remarks. On slide three, just kicking into the highlights for the year, I would say to start off with, you know, despite the obvious challenges with respect to COVID this year, for us and more importantly for our operating partners, we ended up having a very strong year. earning just over 66,000 ounces for the year above our revised guidance, taking into account the shutdowns that we experienced in Q2. And end of the year, kind of back where we started in terms of a run rate with all our assets now chugging along at their full capacity, we believe. That led to record cash flows, obviously, and revenues buoyed by the fact that the decreased production for the year was compensated by higher gold prices, and we look forward to higher gold and silver prices. We look forward to a continued positive outlook from a gold and silver perspective going forward. Our margins stayed high at 94%, the highest in our peer group, by virtue of having more royalties in the streams, more free ounces than cheap ounces, if you will. and generated a significant amount of adjusted earnings over the course of the year, 27 cents a share on a basic share basis. And Fred will walk you through some of the more detail around that. I think worth pointing out, For the quarter, a lot of what you're seeing, and I think many of the analysts who cover us have already picked up on this, is some slight bit of noise due to the Cisco development spin-out transaction that concluded in Q4 and a little bit of the consolidation around that. But when you take into account some of those one-time items, many of which were non-existent, uh, cash oriented or also, uh, disproportionately picked up by Cisco development. Um, you know, we get to a point where we're quite happy with the quarter that we're coming out of today. And again, Fred, we'll, we'll go through that in a little bit more detail. Uh, we did acquire, uh, buy back some, some shares, uh, at the worst of COVID. Uh, so we did buy back some very cheap stock during the year for a total of about just under $4 million. And we declared a quarterly dividend, something up to 20 cents a share, uh, Still the highest yield in our peer group and something that's very important to us as we go forward. With no disrespect to the accountants among us, I think more importantly than any of the noise in the financials is the fact that the business is in excellent shape as we end 2020 and as we start 2021. Our producing assets are outperforming almost without exception. Our development assets are advancing steadily Our exploration or early stage development assets as well are delivering several positive surprises. And we expect that to continue to happen as more and more exploration dollars are being spent in the sector after several years of restrained spending on that side. We expect that catch up to benefit our portfolio quite disproportionately. And then again, Q4 marked the end of The last quarter of our spend on Barkerville, our direct spend on Barkerville, that was a finite period of time. It lasted between the North Spirit transaction to the Cisco development spin out the year and certainly created a lot of value in the process. Skipping over to slide four to finish that thought, 2020 was an important strategic year for us. The culmination of that North Spirit transaction into a Cisco development within the span of roughly a year. And again, as I said, creating a significant amount of value that we now look forward to getting the credit and value for. Since that's been out, Sean, Cisco development has raised circa $250 million in to unlock a significant amount of value in that asset base for the benefit of Cisco development, but also the benefit of OR. And we look forward to that process continuing as that public company has really just gotten on its feet here at the start of the year. In that process, we also acquired, as you all already know, the San Antonio Gold Project or the stream on the San Antonio Gold Project in Mexico. From my perspective, that's the cheapest $9,000-ish out stream I've seen anyone collect anywhere. Obviously, that asset needs to go through permitting in Mexico, and the team is pushing that forward substantially at Asisco Development. But what we see there on our stream is the upside potential. Cisco development has already acquired a crushing circuit that can run about 15,000 times per day. If you start to talk about those types of run rates or anything close to it, it's a substantially higher stream than what we've been talking about. So we look forward to that coming into the midterm of our pipeline. Also throughout the year, we did some other things that we think added significant value. We improved the silver stream on Gibraltar. At the right time, that mine continues to now benefit from significantly higher copper prices. So we're happy with our added exposure to Gibraltar. We also acquired an additional 15% of a royalty package that we already owned, predominantly on the Island Gold and Lamac mines. So adding to our royalties in those two mines, I think it's safe to say was good timing as both of those are now going through some pretty important exploration and expansion phases. We also announced the strategic partnership with Regulus, whereby we added a significant royalty that paid for that transaction off the bat on what is a large asset today, one that's only getting bigger, and ultimately we think a large company asset in a pretty important copper price environment, and also gained exposure to additional royalties that they may buy back with. And as you all know, concluded the financing with the nuts and muck back in April. It was done at a premium during the worst of COVID, so strong endorsement from our partners there. If you move to slide five, just a recap of the producing asset base. Again, I'll reemphasize that it's doing extremely well. Some of you cover, on the analyst side, I'm sure some of you cover these other names. You've been picking up on the positives that have been coming out of their Q4 disclosure, their resource update. Some of that's already come out. Others yet to report. But almost across the spectrum, we're seeing good news, starting with, obviously, on our flagship assets, Canadian and Arctic, where that line has gone from open pit toward the end of this this decade to now talking about production 2039 plus. So we look forward to our flagship assets being our flagship assets for decades to come. And I'll pick up on some other positive advancements a little bit later in the document. And then you see a split of our production for 2020 by commodity as well. We are gold and silver dominated. That's a core part of our of our portfolio and for anybody that has a Reddit blog, feel free to point out the level of silver contribution that we add of about 24% within the company in 2020. On slide six, just a little bit more on where we've come from and I guess where we're going. You'll notice the production annuals for 2019, 2020, and then our guidance of 2021, you know, ranging between 78 and 82,000 ounces, so midpoint of 80. And again, still expected to be the highest cash margin in the business when you exclude the offtakes. I think it's worth pointing out, though, it might feel like that's getting back to 2019 levels, but I would remind everyone that our 2019 production included a significant amount of Bruce Jack contribution That stream and offtake was bought back. We got paid for it, but it did take down our production levels. It also included Renard, which we're now intentionally keeping off to the side until we can fully benefit from those cash flows. So taking that into account, in 2020, we're back at the same level of production. with those ounces gone and with many of our mines shut down. And now we look forward to kind of a 20% increase, whether you look at 2019 or 2020 off the same asset base. So a fair bit of growth to compensate for those other factors. And then more importantly, as you look to the right, some significant assets that are in our pipeline that are maturing, coming along at a pretty steady pace. I would say all, maybe with one exception here, moving forward steadily. And we look forward to this paid for growth coming into the company, especially at a time when new transactions in the sector on the royalty and streaming side have gotten, I think it's fair to say, more expensive and as a result, a little bit riskier. We look forward to this paid for pipeline starting to deliver for us. In the guidance numbers for 2021, You know, I think we made the point in the press release that Mantis has gotten deferred a little bit. We're talking about a few month delays. When you take into account COVID, I think that's frankly pretty de minimis. So it doesn't bother me in the least that that Mantis expansion has been pushed into 2022 as opposed to catching some of 2021. I think the important news is all of this is still in front of us and all of it's still progressing quite well. With that said, I will pass it off to Fred on slide seven to walk you through some of the more detailed aspects of the quarter, and then I'll pick back up thereafter. So, Fred.

Thank you, Sandy. Bonjour a tous. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. As you know, busy year for Cisco with COVID, where some operators shut down or reduced their operations, mostly last spring, and of course, the completion of the RTO transaction in November, creating a Cisco development who raised over $250 million in the last month. We earned 18,829 GOs in Q4, excluding, as Sandeep explained, the GOs earned from the Renaud Diamond Stream in Q4, for a total in 2020 of over 66,000 GOs, exceeding our revised forecast. In Q4, we generated record quarterly revenues of $48.8 million from royalties and streams, operating cash flows of $39 million, and an operating cash margin on our royalties and streams of 94%. An amount of $15 million was also repaid in Q4 in the credit facility. As presented under slide 7 of the presentation, we recorded record revenues from royalties and streams of over 156 million last year compared to 140 million in 2019. Cash flows from operating activities reach a record 108 million compared to 92 million in 2019. If we go on page eight, we have a summary of our earnings and adjusted earnings. Net income was 16.9 million or 10 cents per share compared to a net loss of 234 million in 2019. The loss in 2019 was due to significant impairment charges. Adjusted earnings were 43.7 million or 27 cents per share compared to 41.9 million in 2019. On slide nine, we present our quarterly and annual results. GEOs from gold and silver production were higher in Q4 as all mines have returned to their pre-COVID level. GOs from diamonds have decreased. As I said, we have excluded the GOs from the Renault stream starting in Q4. Revenues increased in Q4 from $51 million in 2019 to $64.6 million in 2020. And you'll note a decrease in our annual revenues, but this was due to the sale of the Bruce Jackoff stake in September of 2019, which was partially offset by a higher realized price on gold and silver. Our average gold price per ounce sold amounted to $2,444 Canadian in Q4 2020 and $2,273 for the year, a significant increase over 2019. Gross profit for the fourth quarter increased to $32.8 million, up from $23.9 million in Q4 2019. For the year, our gross profit was $104 million, up from $83 million in 2019. Our net cash flows from operating activities reached $32.6 million in the fourth quarter of 2020 for a record $108 million for the whole year, up 18% compared to the previous year. Our adjusted earnings in Q4 amounted to $12 million, or $0.07 per share, reflecting a tax expense of 5.8 million Canadian or US 4.5 million on the acquisition of the San Antonio stream. This tax expense will be paid by a Cisco development in Q1 of this year, but is of course included in our consolidated results for 2020. Excluding this one-time tax expense, adjusted earnings would have been 17.8 million or 11 cents per share. I'd like to remind also that additional expenses of approximately $4 million related to the RTO transaction are included in our operating expenses in 2020, including a non-cash listing fee of $1.8 million. These expenses were shared between a Cisco Gold Royalties and a Cisco Development, but are all included in our consolidated results. These expenses were, of course, one-time items. If we go on page 10 of the presentation, we present a breakdown of our cash margin for Q4 and the whole year. The cash margin on our royalties increase in Q4 to reach $34.3 million compared to $26.3 million the previous year. For 2020, the cash margin on royalties reached $111 million, an increase of $14 million compared to 2019. The cash margin on our streams amounted to $11.3 million in Q4 and $36.3 million for the year, up from $9.1 million and $29.5 million respectively in 2019, resulting in a cash margin on our royalties and streams of 93.5% in Q4 and 93.9% for the whole year 2020. Our total cash margin reached $46.3 million in the fourth quarter, 10.6 million higher than the previous year. For 2020, our total cash margin reached 150 million, an increase of 20 million. And finally, if we go to slide 11, you will find a summary of our financial position. Our consolidated cash balance was 303 million at the end of the year. including $105 million for Cisco Go Royalties and $197 million for Cisco Development. Cisco Go Royalties held investments having a value of $216 million at the end of December, in addition to our investment in Cisco Development, valued at over $750 million, for a total of $1 billion in value. Our debt amounted to $400 million on December 31st, we have repaid an amount of 15 million U.S. in Q4 under our revolving credit facility. In Q1 of this year, we have also repaid our $50 million debenture with Agostina Quebec using our credit facility, therefore reducing our interest payable by approximately 1.5% on that debt. including the accordion available, our available credit on the facility is over $385 million as of today. Back to you, Sandy.

Thanks very much, Fred. Skipping forward to slide 12, and obviously Fred will be around for any detailed questions thereafter. Moving to slide 12 and picking up on Canadian Malartic, obviously our flagship asset is doing exceptionally well From an open pit perspective, based on guidance provided by the operators, we're expecting our best year yet from the open pit, obviously benefiting from the higher grade contributions of Barnett. So expecting north of 35 million, almost 36, sorry, 36,000 ounces of geos when you account for the silver contribution as well. And the biggest catalyst there and the biggest catalyst in our portfolio obviously would be on slide 13, The underground construction decision by Niko and Yamana, as well as the first set of economics underpinning that, put out just a couple of weeks ago. Huge catalyst. I think it's fair to say for us, we've had a flagship asset that was finite in life. Otherwise, 2027, 28, 29, whatever people's expectations were of the open pit mine life, that's now turned into two decades plus assets. Importantly, only with 50% of the reserves and resource that amount to about 14.5 million ounces right now embedded in that mine plan. So still a lot of upside to come based on everything we're hearing from our operating partners. Added to that, that upside I think seems disproportionately on the East Goldie Zone where most of the current ounces are. 11 rigs focusing on that area. This year doubled the amount of the exploration that's been put into the asset to date in aggregate. So we still expect a lot of potential positives to come from that. We're missing a little bit of detail between what falls within our 5% and 3% ground on East Malartic. But I think with... a little bit of accounting for that, you can kind of approximate a 4.5% NSR overall for us on the entire project. So, you know, can't underscore the importance of that. Our flagship asset has essentially doubled in value, more than doubled in duration, and we look forward to continued positive news on that front. If you flip forward to slide 14, Our other significant producing assets, I'd say doing quite well at Mentos. The expansion we're now expecting to tie in at the end of the year. So we haven't given ourselves really any credit for that in 2021. Again, I think delays measured in a matter of a few months when it comes to COVID in South America should be seen as wins. So we look forward to that significant increase in silver production to kick in for us next year and every year thereafter. On the Eagle side, quite happy to see a positive fourth quarter for Victoria Gold, where production was up over 42,000 ounces, a 20% increase over Q3. Again, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we didn't get the benefit of that in our Q4. Obviously, we always have a bit of a delay, so we look forward to that ramp up continuing to benefit us and the operator. They're into the coldest winter months, or they have been for some time now. And as per plan, not stacking as a result, but completing, importantly, much of their optimization efforts during that timeframe. So we look forward to continued step change improvement from Eagle. And much like everywhere else in our portfolio, there's a lot of positive exploration results they've already put out, and we look forward to that trend continuing. On Eleanor... I'd say steady states, or frankly, slightly better than steady states that they had guided towards, which was 250,000 ounces per annum, guidance of 270, and returning focus on expiration. I read through a fairly positive expiration tone to their last set of disclosures, so we look forward to that starting to benefit us and the mine community. But frankly, steady state after the last couple of years of El Unor, I think, is also considered a win from my perspective, at least. On slide 15, I won't go through all these next pages in detail, but I think they're available if we want to come back to any specific questions on assets. Importantly, I said it before, I'll say it again, the producing assets could not be doing better as a whole. We see positive news across the spectrum. On this page, I'll pick up Island Gold only because Alamos is the most recent to put out results. And Island continues to get bigger. Reserves increased, resources increased significantly. further justifying that expansion that they announced last year, which, to remind people, is about a 70% increase in ounces. And we benefit from that on our 1.4% royalty ground. But importantly, a lot of the recent exploration results to the east and adept are onto our 2% and 3% royalty ground, a significant portion of what we can see in that new inferred category that's almost 15 grams per tonne. is onto our 2% and 3% royalty ground. So that is a significant asset getting better all the time. And I believe there's a 25, circa $25 million budget plan for this year. And the commentary from Alamos has been excellent in terms of potential for further growth. That's one example. I think that story is playing out across the spectrum. On slide 16, in terms of the growth assets, the development assets, I should say, Again, all of them progressing quite well, all of them moving forward, at least on this page. We look forward to a lot of catalysts on the Cisco development story, which comprises, obviously, as everyone knows, Caribou and San Antonio. We'll get small production, I guess, from each this year, from the satellite to Caribou, as well as from a stockpile at San Antonio. But those are not the more important facets of either of those stories. It's nice, but obviously we expect the focus within that company to be on the larger projects at Caribou and San Antonio. Importantly, as we said earlier, Sean and the team there are exceptionally well-funded right now to push hard, and we are entering into a catalyst-rich phase for Cisco development with respect to drilling and resource updates, studies, and permitting. So we look forward to that news flow this year. On windfall, which is a Cisco Mining flagship asset in Quebec, a pretty unique combination of grade and size with the total resource now up at 6 million ounces based on their last report. M&I of about 1.9, I believe it was, inferred the rest of the way to get you to 6 million. and the grades continuing to, if not stay steady, frankly improve. So we look forward to not only continued exploration results there, continued infill drilling that will increase that M&I, culminating in a feasibility study and advancement of that project. And even on Horn 5, which is a significant resource, 6 million ounces of reserves, gold equivalent, circa 10 million ounces of resources, We get eventually the silver off that mine, which is obviously increasingly more valuable than what we've modeled in the past. It's an important year for Falco. They've made good strides with Glencore last year. We look forward to that trend continuing and then breaking the back of a path forward for that mine. Supply 17. Again, I won't go through these individually, but just other large assets that are moving forward in Hermosa. We look forward to a pre-feasibility study from South 32 there, which will optimize across some T's in terms of the understanding of that deposit and the path forward for it. But it's one of, if not the best, undeveloped polymetallic asset in the world. Pine Point as well, moving through maybe some of the boring phases of mine development, but phases that matter. And we look forward to that continuing this year. And then on Renard and the Mulsar, we talk about them quite a bit. I'm sure we'll talk about them again later on. But two big option value assets for us. We're a year into those kind of restructuring phases. And I would say I'm both, frankly, ahead of where I expect it to be within a year. On the diamond side, diamond prices for Renard have bounced back to $80 a carat so far. North of where they were pre-shutdown, I think the safe to say the Argyle shutdown and the removal of 15% of diamond supply globally is starting to play out. And importantly, it's not just for Renard, it's across the space. So hopefully that diamond sector becomes a little bit healthier, which can only benefit Renard. And then on the Mulsar, you know, we say you're more than half built, but it's significantly more than half built. There, the trick is access and a path forward. but the team on site has had unfettered access to the site for months. The government wants, I think, to see that asset go forward. They certainly need foreign direct investment, so we look forward to hopefully some progress on that front this year. On slides 18 and 19, we have kind of other layers of earlier stage assets or, in some cases, earlier stage assets to talk about. I won't go through them. The point of this is, and it's frankly not exhaustive, these two pages. The point of it is it's a really deep portfolio and it's getting a significant and increasing amount of exploration dollars spent on it. And it's proving itself across the board. So we look forward to continued success by our operating partners on those fronts. Maybe on slide 19, the one or two that I'll pick out. To talk about, you know, El Dorado, we have the 1% NSR on the Lamac mine, seeing a maiden resource as significant as it was at Ormac, about 800,000 ounces of just shy of 10 grams. Within a year of discovery hole, if I'm not mistaken, that's a positive, especially when you take into account that the mill there at Sigma is quite underfed and certainly there's ability to increase capacity. So we look forward to that story playing out. And then Eldorado's proposed acquisition of QMX, I think also benefits us as we have not a 1% NSR, but a 2.5% NSR on that ground and look forward to increased exploration work by Eldorado once it's in there stable. I think I'll pause there, except to say that for a reset year, 2020 worked out quite well in my mind. A lot of advancements, the portfolio doing quite well. We remain focused as we start 2021 on getting paid for that existing portfolio. There's a lot of value within it that we don't think we're currently getting credit for. That is our main priority. We'll remain disciplined thereafter and try to pick our spots in terms of improving it. But we think we did a lot of the hard work in 2020. I think many of you have heard us say that, heard me say that. And I think... I think we have a lot of room to catch up this year. So with that said, operator, happy to take questions.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press bar 1 on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, please press the pound or hash key. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Si vous désirez poser une question, appuyez sur les touches étoiles suivies du 1 sur votre clavier téléphonique. Si vous désirez annuler votre question, appuyez sur les dièges. Et votre première question? The first question comes from Cosmos 2 from CIBC. Your line is open.

Hi. Thanks, Sandeep, Fred, and team. Maybe my first question is on your 2021 guidance here. It's certainly good to see that it's increasing by quite a bit from 2020 levels. But can you give us a bit more color in terms of how it could look like on a quarter-over-quarter basis? The reason why I ask is, Sandeep, as you mentioned earlier, For example, the Eagle mind here, right now it's in the coldest months, not stacking. But at the same time, you know, it didn't really get the full benefit out of Q4, given that there's timing differences. So, you know, how should we look at it in terms of, I guess, more specifically Eagle and how that could impact your overall production quarter over quarter? Are we expecting lower in the first few quarters and then higher in the later quarters? Could you give us a bit more color, Santee?

Sure, I can try Cosmos and morning. Look, I think that's a fair assessment. But I think overall, you know, we didn't get the benefit of that Q4 number. So that'll drift into Q1. There's always I mean, it happens on all of our assets. There's a bit of a lag in terms of when ounces are produced and when we get them from the refineries. At the end of the day, I think that generally tends to wash wash itself out. Eagle is one exception where as it's starting to get to its full run rate, we'll continue to have that story play out, that short delay. So you're right, there may be a little bit of volatility, but overall, I think even with the colder months here and the lack of stacking, I think there's been a lot of improvement at the mine. I think they've taken the opportunity to, whatever you want to call it, de-bottleneck or work on their optimization efforts So hopefully there isn't that, that kind of, uh, uh, that dip after Q1 into Q2 and we see continued improvement towards the, the end result. So, you know, it's premature for me to say, cause it's not in our, it's not in our control, but I, I do look forward to maybe, Oh, maybe a little bit of variability on that one, uh, quarter over quarter, but generally I expect that variability to be positive. If that makes sense.

Yeah, for sure. And then, uh, you know, Sandy, can you remind us what's the usual leg here at ego and, uh, When would you expect them to start stacking again at the mine?

Yeah, so maybe I'll take the second question first. And, Fred, I don't know if you have a specific answer month-wise off the top of your head on Eagle. But I would say soon in terms of stacking again. I don't know when that means, if that means in March. I remember it was a 90-day period. shutdown from just a stacking perspective. They continue to mine minus the coldest days where they're worried about just the inefficiencies of trying to do things. So I would suspect they're probably most of the way through that. Maybe that carries into a little bit of March. But it's a 90-day period of the coldest part of the year. So I'm speculating a little bit, but I think it's pretty fair to say that we're through most of that by now. And Fred, I don't know if you have an answer. If you don't, we can get back to you, Cosmo. But do you have an answer in terms of the typical delay month-wise at Eagle?

Well, I would say it's between one and two months, usually. We received, for example, a good delivery on January 4th, 2021. That was, of course, related to a production of end of November and December. So sometimes there's this one to two-month delay that can... create some volatility between one quarter to another. But that's usually within one or two months that we'll receive our delivery for the royalties. Great.

Thanks. Maybe switching gears a little bit here. Sandeep, as you mentioned, one of the highlights, many highlights, I guess, but one of them is the Alamo's and their discovery or their increase in inferred ounces here at Island Gold. So, you know, my understanding is that a lot of those inferred ounces, higher grades came from Island Gold yeast. Just to confirm, as you mentioned, I guess you are, the NSR over there is higher at two to three percent, eh?

Yeah, that's correct. And look, I think, you know, it's tough to say exactly. We have our own views, but they're based on our views. But I think definitely as you go to the yeast, you get into our 2% ground. As you go deeper, including some of the deeper inferred ounces that are currently in the mix, you get into both our 2% and 3% ground. So, you know, we have our internal views as to what that average is out to. But at the end of the day, you know, what it is is positive.

And then, you know, I understand that Alan most recently acquired Trillium Mining, which is, you know, Again, do even further yeast than island gold yeast. Do you have any kind of royalty on that ground by any chance?

Not to my knowledge. I don't think we do. It's a pretty fair assessment to say that we don't. But I think overall, I think all of that is positive. For the most part, I think what we're seeing for Alamos, dating back to their Their acquisition of one of the other royalties that was on the ground, the expiration effort they put into it, I keep reading results, the $25 million, roughly, I believe it's exactly, but roughly $25 million expiration budget this year. That acquisition of other ground in the area just shows the importance of that asset within the portfolio. It's obviously working out exceptionally well for them, and we hope that continues overall to their benefit, obviously disproportionately, but also to ours.

Of course. And maybe, you know, going to El Dorado's LAMAC, as you mentioned, you know, they made a recent, you know, they made the discovery last year, actually, but they inaugurated, you know, inferred resources at ORMAC here. I think if I look at it, you know, some of the further, of course, they're still expanding ORMAC, but they're also looking at, you know, new sort of areas. Fortune is one. They're also looking at the area between ORMAC and the parallel zone. I just want to get a better understanding in terms of, you know, your ground for that royalty here. And, you know, would it include everything that's expansionary at ORMAC and then also at some of these new zones as well, like Fortune and this area between ORMAC and Parallel?

yeah look i can definitely go back to double check for you cosmo and if i if i uh if i misspeak i'll i'll correct myself but i think the answer is yes uh on the one percent ground and then what is incremental to that is the two and a half percent ground that we have on it might it has a little i think it misses a couple postage stamps but on the qmx ground particularly it's two and a half percent on everything of consequence uh including the bonafon uh area so I think it's pretty safe to understand it as 1% on everything that Eldorado has today, and then 2.5% on anything they acquire through QMAX.

And then, Sandy, maybe if I can, one last question here. As you mentioned in your opening remarks, you talked about looking forward to higher gold and silver prices, which is great. But in that context, could you maybe comment on how that could potentially impact you know, the overall sort of, you know, new streaming, new royalty financing, acquisition market, and then maybe bigger picture, you know, how is that market right now?

Sure. No, it's a good question. And we've talked about it, Cosmo. I think I've probably talked about it with many of you on the phone. Look, I think it's safe to say, I said it earlier, you know, the market for new transactions, you know, that's has gotten tougher with equity markets open, with debt available, with new players on the smaller end, private equities very active on the middle to larger end, operators buying back royalties in significant ways in 2020. If you think about Alamos' acquisition, you think about Newcrest on Lundin Gold. I think anyone who tells you there isn't more competition in the sector is lying. So I think that's fair. It happens in the sector. I mean, it ebbs and flows. There are certainly periods of time when our capital as a royalty company is more required. And you have to wait for those moments, I think, is our view. I'm certainly happy that Sean and the team have been investing in growth, building this portfolio over the last seven years. such that we have so much growth that we've already paid for in lower commodity price environments that we can benefit from. Not only that we can benefit from as it comes online, but also that more open equity markets can push those assets faster than they've been pushed in the past several years. I think it doesn't make it more competitive, yes. At the same time, does the pie grow when new assets are advanced, new assets are constructed? It does. So I think generally speaking, there's probably been a lack of equity dollars to fund many of these projects and over-reliance on debt and streaming, which can benefit us as royalty and streaming companies, but it can also hurt us when things go wrong. So I think finding the right balance within that and having generally more equity dollars in the mix is a good thing. It's certainly a good thing for our portfolio, the way it's constructed with as much growth as we have on the come in the next several years. And because of that, we can afford to be, I think, a lot more disciplined, maybe more disciplined than anyone in our sector right now. I certainly wouldn't want to be building a portfolio from scratch. I'm happy we have the one we do.

Great. Thanks, Sandeep. And those are all the questions I have. Looking forward to, you know, the remainder of 2021.

Thanks so much, Cosmo.

And the next question comes from the line of Jackie Pribilowski from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Thanks very much. I just have one question, I guess, more strategic for you. You mentioned this at the beginning, so I just wanted some clarification on your North Spirit division. Now that you've restructured with ODV, is North Spirit still something that's active and separate for yourselves? Are you still pursuing... uh, that avenue with private equity or, or is that sort of a mission that's been accomplished with the creation of ODV? Thanks.

Yeah. Good morning, Jackie. Uh, thanks for your question. No, it's the latter. Um, you know, and, and hopefully we, we, we were clear with that when we did it. I mean, North spirit was the working name. Uh, I guess when, when, uh, when the transaction was announced in the fall of 2019, uh, you know, North spirit and, and, and our minds was renamed the Cisco development Corp and, uh, and started life in the fall of 2020. So yes, that's very much North Spirit reincarnated, if you will. So that hopefully answers your question on that front. Tangential to that, if the question is, are we still looking to do traditional accelerator type business? I think I've been pretty clear with everybody that that business has been in its purest form wildly successful for us, not only on a financial perspective, but also in terms of building out the pipeline. So if we can continue to find avenues to deploy $5 or $10 million to turn them into 50s and 100s and take back valuable royalties without competition or with far less competition as opposed to having to pay up for them, picking up on the last conversation we had, You know, I think that's something we'll look to do all day long. The gating item on that is not interest. It's availability of assets that we actually like. So on the bigger end, to your point, we've found the right home for Barkerville. That was always the intent when we announced the transaction. It was to... put that right put that back into the right vehicle so that it had value for us that value i think is undeniable in terms of how it's gotten created um and uh we look you know we're happy being back in our uh in our lane so to speak as a royalty company yeah i guess i guess uh you you answered exactly i guess i was i was kind of wondering if if you would use that north spirit um

vehicle to do other accelerator model type transactions. But I think you've answered that perfectly. So thanks very much for that. I think Kaz covered off my other questions, so I will leave it there and I'll talk to you next week. Thanks very much, Sandy.

No problem. No problem. Look forward to talking next week, Jack.

And the next question comes from the line of Ralph Profiti from 8 Capital. Your line is open.

Hi there, Ralph Profiti, everyone.

Morning, Ralph. Yeah, I can hear you. It sounds like you're in a tunnel or something, but I can't hear you if you speak up.

Okay, I'll do that. I want to come back specifically to the 2021 guidance. And maybe we can exclude Renard because there seems to be some good disclosure on the potential contribution. But maybe, Sandy, can you tell me which assets you're comfortable saying that there's upside versus current expectation and room for outperformance versus guidance? Because there seems to be a you know, a fair amount of conservatism baked into, you know, the 2021 guidance. Is it, you know, for Mantos where you could see some contribution where there's none?

Sure. Happy to do that, Ralph, to the extent I can, obviously. Look, I think conservatism is probably a fair word and it was intentional. I think with Mantos, we've, for our guidance perspective, we've kicked that into next year and, uh just didn't feel it was worthwhile trying to quibble about a month here or there uh you know initially uh it happened in phases but initially that that that expansion was due to get completed mid-year uh and then as soon as covet hit you know normal you know just normal uh sorry buzzing is distracting but normal uh construction delays plus uh thank you so much plus um COVID-related delays, you know, push that to the end of the year. I think, you know, saying at the end of the year and getting the benefit of it in 2022 is fine by me. I think we've also been a little bit conservative on the Eagle side. You know, last year, we, like everybody else, budgeted more and didn't receive it. So I think we've taken a slightly conservative track on that side, and hopefully there's some upside there. And then also on things like Like San Antonio, we've said, you know, really only given ourselves the benefit of a trickle of stockpile production really at the end of the year. The prize there is the bigger asset. But despite the desire and what's happening, it's pushing that forward, you know, pushing that asset forward consistently. faster. It's still reliant on Mexican permitting and bureaucracy, which within COVID, I think you've probably seen throughout the sector has gotten pretty delayed. So I think overall, we've taken the tack, including with Bernard. I mean, we took the decision last year that until we're getting paid for those ounces, it's unfair to put them in guidance. So we've tried to take a conservative approach to everything. Hopefully, when that asset comes back and we are getting paid on it, it's a positive net surprise as opposed to something we're putting out there and then trying to chase. I don't know if that answers your question directly. It probably answers it as directly as I can, but that's the tack we've taken, and I think it probably serves us well.

Understood. That's great. I appreciate the call. Thank you. My pleasure.

And your next question comes from the line of Trevor Turnbull from Scotiabank. Your line is open.

Yeah, thank you. Sandeep, just to follow up on San Antonio, and you may have just addressed this with Ralph, but I didn't quite catch it. Did you say San Antonio, there are a few ounces potentially coming through, but did you include that in the 2021 guidance?

I did, and maybe I'll let Sean speak for San Antonio himself as opposed to me paraphrasing for him. But even if we did, which we did, Trevor, it's small. That's not the larger production story there. So us factoring in a little bit of it this year does not change the answer all that much. But Sean, maybe if you're on, you can pick up on the general plan for San Antonio. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, so, I mean, we expect a little bit of production at San Antonio this year. According to where we sit right now, from the existing stockpile, there's about 1.1, 1.2 million tons of stockpile that we hope to have under irrigation sometime in Q4. And, you know, it's mostly oxides, so at least fairly quick. But I don't anticipate it to be a big contributor this year, but certainly 2022 looks like a great year for us. For the development there, we're also pursuing the permit for the larger Cipucci project. We have the necessary permits for the stockpile now, but the big kahuna here will be to get Cipucci itself under leach, which we hope to be able to build next year. We've already secured a 15,000 ton a day crushing and screening circuit from the Britannica mine for that purpose, and we're shipping that to Mexico as we speak.

And I think you just answered the second part of my question, Sean. So the permits only for the larger project and what you have on the stockpile that you'll be processing towards into this year is not dependent on getting that permit or kind of getting delayed by COVID.

No, it's already mined, that stuff. The big thing about the stockpile is we just have to restack it on a purpose-built beach pad. So it's basically load, haul, screen, and a little bit of crushing. And hopefully the equipment that we have in hand now, we can set that up and get that running as a safer Q4.

Okay, perfect. And then I have a bit of a financial question, and I guess in some ways it's also related to San Antonio. You did mention, I guess Fred and Sandeep both talked a little bit about the noise related to the transaction and how that's come through on the consolidated financials. Going forward, do you think there's much noise left to shake out, or will things be a little bit clearer other than the fact that they're consolidated in future quarters?

Maybe I'll start, Fred, and if I miss something you want to add, feel free. I'd say certainly we think it's mostly behind us, Trevor. I think that the transaction itself was pretty complicated, had a lot of facets to it. So that's all been factored into our Q4 for the most part. If I'm missing something, Fred, you can contradict me. But going forward, we do see clearer lines from that. We try to incorporate as much of that as we could in Q4. And yes, there'll be continued ongoing noise with respect to the royalty business and uh the mining business we've done in these set of financials and the mda our best first effort of trying to separate that for you um as analysts and investors and we'll continue to do that and hopefully get a little bit better at it smarter at it as we go but um that's uh that's certainly the intent uh trevor fred did i miss anything no no i mean all all of the uh

All costs related to the RTO, these one-time items were accounted for in 2020 and we are not expecting any additional costs related to the transaction in 2021.

And Fred, I know you commented on this earlier, but specifically with respect to Q4, what was the tax impact you said from San Antonio kind of on the earnings in Q4?

Yeah, that was a tax payment of 4.5 million U.S. in Mexico. If you recall, that transaction was done just prior to the RTO, while Sapuchi, which is holding the San Antonio project, was still a direct subsidiary of Cisco Royalties. It's now a subsidiary of Cisco Development. It's still being consolidated. But the project was within Cepuchi, and when Cisco Bermuda, our subsidiary, acquired a stream from the San Antonio project for U.S. $15 million, there's a 30% corporate tax in Mexico. And the treatment of a stream when you are receiving the deposit in Mexico is different than in Canada. In Canada, the taxes on that revenue will be deferred to the moment that you will produce the ounces. In Mexico, it's taxed on day one, so generating a $4.5 million U.S. payment in taxes and cash tax that will be paid in Q1. But, of course, it will reduce the taxes payable by Cepuchi when they will start their production. So it's like a prepayment of taxes, if we want, if we compare it to what would be the treatment in Canada.

Okay, perfect. Thank you very much. That's all I had. You're welcome. Thanks, Trevor.

And the next question comes from the line of John Tumazos. Mr. Tumazos, your line is open.

Thank you very much. The ODC restructuring is splendid, and you did everything you said you were going to do, you know, better than you said you were going to. And you have all the progress outlined in some of your slides today, which are really very effective in communicating the new resources and projects on the come. When OR first started trading in July 2014, the shares were almost U.S. 15. And I guess the good news is that since July-August gold price peaks, OR has gone sideways and the other leading royalty streaming companies have gone down 30-40%. So maybe ODC is effective in that regard. But my sense is that the market just can't digest all the progress you're making. Do you think there's another simplification you could do or a better way to help the market understand the 20 or 30 moving parts that are all moving ahead?

Hi, John. Look, thanks for your question. I mean, there's a fair bit to unpack there, so I'll do my best. To answer a part of your question, we missed out, we feel like. We lost ground, obviously, in the fall of 2019 from a share price perspective. That's a given. And then we missed out on the run-up in the first half of 2020 as gold prices ran, gold equities ran. Despite that, In 2020, we still ended up being, I think, the second best performing royalty company in the sector. Whilst I wish that would have been by us going up, it happened to be by us outperforming, as you say, in the second half by standing still in what was a, you know, a downdraft over the second part of the year or part of it at least. You know, I think the transaction we announced, I would, I'll buy it aside, agree with you, did work. More than most people probably would have expected of us when we started communicating our intent at the start of 2020. Unlocked a considerable amount of value that we can't argue with, given how much money Sean has been able to raise on the Cisco development front to justify that value. You know, happened into a downdraft. Again, that same downdraft. We announced that transaction, I think it was October 2nd or 3rd. We closed it December 2nd or 3rd. generally a downward momentum from a gold price perspective and a gold equities perspective. But nonetheless, the value has been created. We certainly don't think we've gotten the credit for that or what's happening within our royalty portfolio. We're working towards that. Eventually, we will say and do enough to get the benefit of it. And really, at some point, I think that benefit will be undeniable. I mean, the assets are just working beautifully. They're making more money than they ever have for us. And at some point, that growth pipeline is going to kick in in a bigger way than it already has. So those development assets that people are discounting pretty heavily become pretty tough to discount when they're actually hitting the bottom line. So that's ongoing. We'll do what we can, John, to fast track it. I think 2020, we did the hardest part of the restructuring. Obviously, we hear a lot about the ownership in a Cisco development. It was 88%. It's now 75% without us having sold a share. But there's a lot of value that was created there. And as we've said, we'll be smart about how we can tap into that value. But those are the things that we can control. The portfolio that we can't is doing really well. So eventually, we do expect that to prove out. I mean, this is a portfolio that that matters in the sector. These are assets that matter. Our flagship asset was the best gold royalty in the business. It just got twice as good. So we do think we will go back and get better value for these assets, Jim.

Do you think it would help if you had a little real-time Excel model for your stock holdings or yours and ODC's stock holdings? Or do you think your attorneys would let you Take some of the things you put on your slides and have a model where someone could download the Excel and put their own gold and silver and diamond prices in or click to include Amosar and not Amosar?

Yeah, look, to the first part of your question, look, I mean, I think from a OGR and Cisco royalties perspective, really the two biggest chunks of value we have on the equity, on the investment side are Cisco development and Cisco mining. To a lesser extent, Cisco metals, that's really it. People can value those. On a day like today, that's a billion dollars of value and a pretty paltry remainder for the royalty business. Even if you don't take... market values at a given, any kind of discount you want to apply on that, the answer is still the same. The royalty portfolio deserves to be trading better than it is. That's the job we've set out for ourselves to undo. Your question is an interesting one. We're looking to do whatever we can to daylight the value of our portfolio. It's an interesting spot we're in. If you think about the larger companies in our peer group, they generally tend to have 80 or 90% of their value in the producing space, in the producing side of their portfolio. So they're getting credit for 85, 90% of their asset value. If you look at the smaller companies, they have a handful of assets, a half dozen assets, whatever it may be. Everyone models every single one to the last dollar and they get full credit for that as well. Us in between, we have what is a pretty deep, meaningful set of assets, pretty deep portfolio, and 50% of it, give or take, is in the development category. So we're not getting the benefit of that in cash flow today, but it matters. And if you look to duplicate that portfolio, I don't know what it would cost you today. I mean, on these pages, wherever they are, 16, 17 at the back of our deck, or sorry, 18, 19, these are the types of things people are paying $50-plus million for in our market, and we have in our portfolio, and we don't talk nearly enough about them, which is also something we're looking to rectify. So the good news is the value is there, and we'll make sure we do a better job of datalining it to people. Different ideas on how to do that, John, are welcome, and we'll definitely give that some thought.

Thank you. Good luck.

My pleasure. Thank you, John.

And your next question comes from the line of Adrian Day from Adrian Day Asset Management. Your line is open.

Yeah, good morning. Listen, you just answered my question about, you know, the selling down of the development shares, but you just answered it.

Thank you. No problem, Adrian. Good morning to you. And you.

Thank you. And your next line comes from the line of Puneet Singh from Industrial Alliance. Your line is open.

Hi, good morning. Just a quick one on asset upside. A question for Eleanor, because it's been a key royalty for you over the years. I guess Newmont's still working through their assets that they got from Goldcorp, but I just want to see if you can provide some color on this. That plant at Eleanor has capacity over 7,000 tons per day. In years prior, I think it was Goldcorp's plan to eventually build to that. Today, Newmont's still operating well under that. Do you think Newmont builds up

that in the years ahead or where do you think they'll eventually take the throughput on that asset look i mean it's it's hard for me to say i think you know rightly so the first thing they did when they picked up that asset is kind of you know reset the bar in my mind a little low after a couple years or however many years of of uh of expectations being set and not and then not met And when you think about a new owner picking up an asset, I mean, wouldn't that be the right thing to do? So that's what we experienced first. We dealt with that last year. So a steady state year now, frankly, a little bit better than steady state is positive. replenishing of reserves was positive. We're not seeing that happening across the board, frankly, based on what I've seen so far in other people's disclosure. They did that at, I believe it was 12 or maybe it was 1250 gold for the reserves. So still amongst the lowest in the sector. And frankly, their reserve categories are maybe the most stringent in the sector. So I feel comfortable about the baselines. Thereafter, how they work to improve that, you know, time will tell. I seem to recall kind of a circa $10 million exploration budget for 2021 targeting some of the deeper material, but also looking laterally closer to surface. So we look forward to getting some updates there. I know they were positive about some of the regional targets they have, and there's just more activity in that area overall. So, you know, premature and probably unfair for me to comment. But overall, I'd say we'll take steady state until things improve. It's a marked improvement over the last couple of years.

Okay, Sandy. Fair enough. Thanks. My pleasure.

Thank you. And the next question comes from the line of Brian MacArthur from Raymond James. Your line is open.

Good morning. Many of my questions have been answered, but just a couple of things I want to follow up on. And I thank you for breaking out some of the consolidation because you said it does take some time. But you mentioned investments of $215 million ex-DODV. And again, obviously, that's metals and mining. But if I sort of look at the market value, there's some other stuff in there. Is that the Falco convertible or is there another, you know, back to Jackie's question about cleaning up the investments? I mean, it looks like there's another $20 million or something in there. Is that right? Or can you comment on that at all?

No, happy to, Brian. And I was maybe a little flippant in that remark. I was trying to get to the bulk of that value. And the bulk of that value is obviously Cisco development, the lion's share, Cisco mining and metals behind that. But we do still have a small investment in Sable Resources and Talisker, for instance. And that would kind of round out the rest, if you will. So both of those earlier stage still in nature. So we thought a lot of value to unlock in those names, both doing positive things, just not to go off on too much of a tangent. But Sable having entered into a joint venture with South 32, where we have a 2% NSR on that ground in Argentina. So look forward to them being more active. So, yeah, I was a bit short in terms of the list, but the list is not much, much longer than that.

Great. Thanks. And then the second thing, so you're excluding Renard and I'm just trying to figure out how to, I assume that it comes into the financials, but you're putting the cash back into the company right now. Do you ever get that back? Like you obviously have security at the end of the day or how does this actually work? So we just think about the 8,000 geos this year, we kind of just, it's gone. And when you get it working next year, we start to include it again or, Or is there a catch-up in the future? Or how should we actually think about that, as you said, from a pure cash flow basis going forward that's available to OR?

Yeah, so it's not money that's being evaporated, Brian. It's money that's being reinvested into the business with the expectation of it getting repaid. So it's essentially a loan into the business. And we're happy with where we are, I have to say. You know, going through COVID, I did not expect luxury goods to rebound as quickly as they have. So that's promising. I guess maybe the whole world has rebounded quicker than many of us thought. So, you know, getting $10 a carat higher than we were prior to COVID, I think, is a good step in the right direction. The fact that with the reinvestment by not just us, but all the streamers of the stream back in, They're not having to draw on the working cap facility. They're making a little bit of money. That's all good news. I think it's fair to say that we still require another step change up before we can start getting paid on our stream and getting back some of those historical reinvestments. So, Fred, I don't know if there's any more detail you think is warranted, but that's how to think of it, Brian. It's not being evaporated. We certainly are keeping a running tally of it. as our partners and, and hope that with a bit more joy from a diamond price perspective that can come back into the black.

Right. So I'd maybe evaporate. It wasn't a Mike term. I was just, it is a GEO at the end of the day. So that's, I'm just curious when you start getting back to get the cash back out.

Yeah, look, it's, it's, it's certainly chunky and you know, we are absolutely focused on getting value for that. You know, so we, Trust me, it's not a forgotten asset. We think it's not in our value in any way, shape or form right now, which is fair. But in terms of option value assets that can be turned back on, I mean, there's a billion dollars of infrastructure, of good infrastructure that's gone into that diamond mine. You know, balance sheet and diamond prices just went wrong at the same time. But that diamond mine should be profitable before any other diamond mine is built anywhere in the world. And frankly, we're not seeing any found that could be built. So we look forward to, you know, we're still not out of the woods from a COVID perspective. We're happy it's back, restarted. We're happy we're up on a diamond price perspective so far. But we want to keep that as a positive surprise, hopefully, as opposed to sticking our necks out too far and then having to justify it.

Great. Thank you. That color is very helpful. Maybe just one quick question, maybe for Fred. I just want to confirm I heard this right. When it goes to your financials and try and deconsolidate the ODV stuff, there's that income taxes payable of $6. million, which I guess is Canadian. That's that $4.3 million you talked about to true up the San Antonio deal, which you said ODB is paying. That's right. So again, it's not cash you're going to owe?

No, you're correct. It's a cash tax payable by your Cisco development in Q1 2021, not by your Cisco gold.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Thanks, Brian. Thanks, Brian.

And your next question comes from the line of Greg Barnes from TD Securities. Your line is open.

Thank you, Sandeep. I just want to follow up on Brian's line of questioning on Renard. Is it a question of diamond prices there, or is there more work to be done on the cost structure? What is it that will get that into a performing asset for you?

Look, I think it's obviously always both, Greg. So I'm not saying it's only reliant on diamond prices. I think The good news for us is we saw the team sharpen their pencils, especially during the extended COVID shutdown, I would call it, to make sure that the cost could be reduced. It's always one of those things, as a group of owners, you ask for people to sharpen their pencils and cut as much cost as possible. And until it's absolutely necessary, the answer is always yes. we're as lean as we can be. And then lo and behold, you find more. So, you know, I think, I think the group's been doing a great job from that perspective. I think there's continued possibility to optimize that. But I think, you know, it's fair to say that the biggest chunk of, of, of gain there can come off the back of, of diamond prices for sure. And, And then that's always true of any mine in any commodity cycle. The commodity price can do a lot more good for you than the OPEX. Obviously, we want the team to be focused on the OPEX because that's the only thing they can control. But we've already seen a good move. After years of waiting for it, we saw Argyle finally throw the towel in. And that's significant because that's not only the 15% of Diamond annual supply, it's also in the same very similar, I guess, quality and size fraction as Renard. So, you know, we look forward to continued uptick on that side. I think it's certainly possible and, you know, obviously necessary.

And just on Amulsar, you mentioned that they have unfettered access back to the site again. Is there any kind of timeframe that you can lay out on what could happen there?

I mean, maybe I could, but I won't. I think it'd be reckless of me to do that. I think we are. I certainly am positive, more positive than I thought I'd be a year in. It seemed like a pretty desperate situation a year ago. I'm a bit longer than a year ago. You know, the truth is that was a good to very good asset at $1,400 gold. It's a company maker at 18. And it's, you know, arguably 70 or 80% built, depending on, you know, the minor step back you have to take to get going again. So I think it's an asset that matters. You know, Armenia was in a tough spot before COVID and before a war with Azerbaijan. So Um, I think, you know, this is, this is always an asset that really the, even the community wanted in, in, in large, uh, in large swaths, uh, the government certainly wanted it to prove, um, you know, the, the, the unfortunate aspects there are just the, you know, the, the pushbacks were really, uh, you know, largely artificial in nature or, or, or it's the wrong terminology, but I think you know what I mean. So with that kind of out of the way, uh, we look forward to some positive developments, but until they happen, I think, you know, it's tough for us to bang on the table and talk about it. But I think if you look at the sector as a whole, certainly a ton of examples where if the asset's good enough and this asset is clearly good enough, there are people that decide to take another run at it. And this one, frankly, being as far advanced as it is, you know, it's one of the few mines that can hit the cycle pretty quickly. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

No problem, Greg. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Jeremy Hoy from Canaccord Genuity. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning, everyone. You guys have answered most of my questions so far. Thanks. Just one quick one left on G&A. Previously, you guys had indicated with the ODV spinout that it would drop for OR with a significant chunk of the management team going over to ODV. Going forward, can we expect to see the G&A expenses for ODV split out, or will it be consolidated? I know we touched on this earlier. talking about those, but a little more detail would be appreciated.

Yeah, look, Jeremy, it's a good question. And I think that's a fair way to think about it going forward in terms of that division. I think you'll see a bit more segment information going forward. We didn't try to overdo it this time around because we did own the assets all within OR for the vast majority of the year, 11 plus months out of the year. So we kept it a little bit simpler, but going forward, we'll do our best job of being able to show you exactly what's happening on each side of the business because it's important to obviously each set of shoulders.

Great. Thank you very much.

No problem.

And your final question comes from the line of Don Bleat from Paradon Capital. Your line is open.

Further on that consolidation accounting, presumably at some point when you allow your ownership to be diluted down, you will remove that consolidation. Would you do that when you dilute to under 50%? And secondly, if you still are under consolidation accounting when ODB is into production, would you have to report both your share of ODB gold production and your attributable royalty production in your results?

Yeah. Morning, Don. Look, the answer to your first question is yes. So obviously at some point we will not be consolidating, you know, again, Started out in December at 80%. We're down to 75%. That's just based on dilution. Eventually, when we're below, it's not exactly a bright line at 50%, but you can think of it as such, I think, reasonably closely. There's other determinants that go into it. So below that level, obviously, we will stop consolidating. I think that's obviously noise that everyone would prefer to not have. And the second part of your question, the answer is yes, whilst we are still consolidating and obviously we will have to deal with that. I think, as I said, we took a good crack at it this quarter in terms of separating things for people. We will continue to do that and frankly probably get better at it. But wealth, I'll say accounting is important. It's not what drives decisions. Value matters and we'll do our best to uncomplicate things. But the heading is value matters. And we're not going to lose sight of that. But hopefully that answers your question, Don.

No, that's good. Again, I think part of your undervaluation is a little bit of confusion. So anything you can make to get it more simple probably helps them a lot.

And that's completely fair. And it's not lost on any of us. So trust me, we're minded that way. Excellent. Thanks, Andy. No problem, Don. Operator, were you serious when you said that was the last question?

It was. So this concludes the Q&A session. I would like to turn it over to you, Mr. Singh, for conclusion remarks.

Okay. Well, thank you for the time and the interest, everybody. I think it was useful to get that output and that back and forth with you. So thanks for your questions and your time and have a good rest of your day.

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Merci pour votre participation. Vous pouvez maintenant raccrocher. Bonne journée.