Trisura Group Ltd.

Good morning. Welcome to Tricera Group Limited's fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. On the call today are David Clare, Chief Executive Officer, and David Scotland, Chief Financial Officer. David Clare will begin by providing a business and strategic update, followed by David Scotland, who will discuss financial results for the period. Following formal comments, lines will be open for analyst questions. I'd like to remind participants that in today's comments, including in responding to questions and in discussing new initiatives related to financial and operating performance, forward-looking statements may be made, including forward-looking statements within the meaning of the applicable Canadian and U.S. securities law. These statements reflect predictions of future events and trends and do not relate to historic events. They're subject to known and unknown risk and future events and results may differ materially from such statements. For further information on these risks and their potential impacts, please see Trishara's filings with the securities regulators. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question, please press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1-1 again. Thank you. I'll now turn the call over to David Clare.

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and welcome.

2026 marks 20 years since Trishura began operations. Over the past two decades, the company has experienced transformational growth while remaining committed to quality underwriting and a customer-focused culture. In 2025, we made significant progress towards our objective of becoming a leading North American specialty insurer as we delivered strong profitability, underpinned by an 85% combined ratio, expanded our footprint across North America, and continued to shift our earnings mix towards primary lines with attractive and durable margins. Consistent execution and compounding of book value per share, which grew 18%, reinforces the confidence we have in our strategy and ability to create value for our partners and shareholders. Primary lines, surety, warranty, and corporate insurance remain the foundation of our business, growing net insurance revenue 20% in 2025. Surety was a standout, growing premium 36%, with continued success in our U.S. expansion and strength in Canada. In the U.S., momentum with distribution partners and expanded licensing drove growth, with Trishura ranking among the top 30 surety riders by Q3 2020. Early results highlight our team's strong relationships and disciplined underwriting, supporting the significant opportunity ahead. Warranty grew 17%, driven by deeper relationships with existing partners and improving auto purchasing activity. Corporate insurance grew premium and delivered a strong 31% loss ratio in a balancing market, demonstrating a focus on profitability and underwriting expertise despite shifting market conditions. Continued investment in U.S. corporate insurance follows the approach proven out in surety. expanding the areas we know well and attracting experienced talent, while relying on established infrastructure and best practices. While still in early stages, this platform is expected to contribute meaningfully to profitability and scale over time.

U.S.

programs grew 17% in the quarter and 4% for the year, with an 81% combined ratio, benefiting from a strongly performing portfolio, growth in MGAs, improving reinsurance capacity, and a widely licensed platform with admitted and ENS capabilities. Our scale, permanent capital, and diversification increasingly positions Trishura as a preferred long-term partner for strong profitability-focused MGAs. Our investment portfolio performed well in 2025. Interest and dividend income of approximately $83 million grew 18%, supported by profitable underwriting and active portfolio management. The portfolio remains conservatively positioned, ready to take advantage of market dislocations should attractive opportunities arise. While Tresura has scaled meaningfully over the past five years, we believe the opportunity ahead is significant. We remain committed to the pursuit of profitable growth, increasing the proportion of primary lines, and curating a complementary and diverse, high-quality portfolio of programs and fronting business. Above-average underwriting profitability, combined with enhanced investment income, is expected to drive consistent increases in shareholders' equity. Expansion into the U.S. builds on two decades of disciplined underwriting experience. As these platforms mature, we expect them to equal or exceed the earnings contribution of the Canadian counterparts. The significance and profitability of our U.S. surety premium in 2025 supports the attractiveness of our geographic expansion. Increased scale has enabled larger limit surety bonding in Canada, with strategic hires and a broader offering are driving broker engagement and producing a promising submission pipeline. MGA Premium continues to grow as a proportion of the U.S. market, and Trishura is well-positioned to take advantage of this trend. The second half of 2025 demonstrated renewed momentum as reinsurance capacity returned, and we moved beyond the impact of non-renewed partnerships. Inorganic growth has been an important part of Trishura's evolution, and we remain well-positioned to pursue opportunities should they align with our risk appetite and return thresholds. Our strategic initiatives are well-funded, with capital at the highest level in our history and significant financial capacity. Trishura is increasingly self-funding. Progress through 2025 reinforces our long-term expectations of premium growth, operating return on equity, and book value per share growth in excess of 15%, and our confidence in outperforming our previously communicated $1 billion book value target. Our earnings are supported by a diversified mix of underwriting income, fee income, and stable investment income. Through growth, we've expanded earnings while maintaining returns on equity in a high team. we continue to expect stability and durability in our earnings profile. We remain committed to the principles that have guided Tricia Red to success, a strategic focus on specialty insurance, supported by structural tailwinds, disciplined, profitable underwriting, consistent support for our partners, and a prudent approach to growth, risk appetite, and reinsurance structuring. Market volatility will create opportunities to win business and strengthen our reputation. With the strongest capital base in our history and a platform that continues to scale, We are optimistic for the years ahead. With that, I'd like to turn it over to David Scotland for a detailed review of financial results.

Thanks, David. I'll now provide a walkthrough of financial results for the quarter.

Operating earnings per share, which reflect core performance from the business, was $0.75 for the quarter. This drove a modest increase in full-year operating EPS of $2.85 and contributed to operating return on equity of 17%, which exceeded our mid-teens target. Gross premiums written was $786 million for the quarter, a 10% increase year over year, reflecting continued disciplined growth across the portfolio. U.S. programs maintained its growth in the quarter, posting a 17% increase in gross premiums written, and surety grew strongly at 36% for the quarter, though we expect that pace to normalize going forward. Net insurance revenue, which approximate net premiums earned, was $200 million for the quarter, reflecting growth of 11.8% over the prior year, Growth was driven by continued expansion in our primary lines, which increased by 15%. The combined ratio for the group was 85% in the quarter, which was higher than the prior year. The loss ratio in the quarter was slightly larger as a result of a higher loss ratio at Trishura Specialty, though within the range of expectation and compared against a particularly low loss ratio in 2024. The expense ratio was higher as a result of higher contingent profit commissions of trade share specialty as well as a more normalized expense ratio at U.S. programs. At 85% for the quarter and 84.9% for the full year, these combined ratios demonstrate our disciplined underwriting focus and are supportive of our mid-teens operating ROE objective. Underwriting income for the quarter was lower than the prior year as a result of a slightly higher combined ratio offset by growth in the business. Net investment income was $21.5 million, increased by 25% in the quarter as a result of an increase in the size of the investment portfolio, driven by new cash deployment. Our operating effective tax rate was 24.7% for the quarter, reflecting the composition of taxable income between Canada and the U.S., and consistent with previous quarters. Overall, operating net income was $36.5 million for the quarter, reflecting consistently profitable underwriting and growing net investment income. Non-operating results in the quarter and year-to-date period reflected primarily net gains associated with unrealized gains on the investment portfolio. Exited lines had an immaterial impact to net income in the quarter. Strong earnings per share contributed to an 18% increase in book value for the year-to-date period, resulting in a book value per share of $19.42 at December 31, 2025. This was partly offset for the year-to-date period by FX movement associated with a weakening US dollar against the Canadian currency. Book value has grown at an average rate of 26% for the last five years, ending the year with over $920 million. We are well on track to achieve our book value target of $1 billion by the end of 2027. Earlier this year, we drew down on our revolving credit facility to further capitalize our growing US surety balance sheet. This increased our debt-to-capital ratio to 12.7% at December 31, 2025, which was higher than December 31, 2024, but still well under our conservative leverage target of 25%. The company remains well capitalized, and we expect to have sufficient capital to meet our regulatory capital requirements and to continue to support our robust organic growth. As we enter 2026, our diversified specialty platform, disciplined underwriting approach, and strong capital position provide a solid foundation for continued profitable growth. David, I'll now turn things back over to you.

Thank you, David.

Operator, we will now take questions.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again. One moment for questions. And our first question comes from Doug Young with Desjardins Capital Markets. He may proceed.

Good morning. I just want to get an update on a few items within the surety business. So maybe I'll just kind of tick them off as we go. But I guess the first is You know, you've been moving upmarket in Canada. I think you brought a group in about a year ago. And in Canada, are you seeing at all a pickup and quote activity?

So, Doug, on that surety piece and the larger limit bonding initiative, we are seeing, certainly towards the end of the year, some benefit of that really manifesting at this stage in some increased submission activity. It's... It's been encouraging, and I think we've started to see some of the activity translate into some early wins, but the best is yet to come in that practice.

Okay. And then expansion into the U.S., and I'm sorry, I don't know if I got the number right. You said I think you're now a top 30 surety writer in the U.S., and so I think that's where you can correct me if I'm wrong, but just maybe an update on how that expansion in the U.S. is going and And do you need to move more capital into the U.S. to support the growth?

I think the expansion isn't going well. This is now, we're in five years into this project of building out a practice in the U.S. and breaching that top 30 has been a nice metric for us to achieve. There is still some infrastructure buildup that we're excited to achieve that will help us continue to build that. That's separate from the capital piece, Doug. So, What we're doing right now is balancing the build out of the platform, the offices, our people with the licenses and the capital that will underpin this overall infrastructure. So I would expect as we continue to get some of these final licenses in the US, you'll likely see us in time drop a bit more capital down into that entity. It's worth noting that capital is capital that we have internally already earmarked for this expansion. So you shouldn't expect any material change in the approach.

Okay, and then just lastly, as we see that in the surety business, how do we think about the loss ratio evolving with the mix shift as you're going upmarket, as you're growing more in the U.S.? Is it around that 20%? Should that evolve higher or lower as we see this evolve?

Yeah, depending on the mix, you could see this. I think usually we think about this as 20% to 21%. over the long term. You could see this go 20% to 22%, but nothing material in terms of a change.

Okay. And then just a few other items. You mentioned a few items in the warranty, but the warranty has been a pretty good growing business. It's a very attractive business from what I can see. Just wanted to dig into what you're seeing that's driving the growth a little bit more granularity there. And now this business used to contribute. I think the underwriting profit was in the high single digits. It's now in the low double digits. I mean, is there room for this to be like a 15, 20% contributed to underwriting profits for twice a year? I'm just hoping to get some color.

Yeah, I think the warranty business has been a great story for us, not only this year, but for the last couple of years. The team has done a really good job leaning in with our partners, and our partners have done a great job at extending their businesses. So We should acknowledge the strength of that practice this year. I think there is still opportunity in the warranty practice. We think next year it's something that can continue growing in that mid-teens level. And I think that would imply increasing contribution to underwriting income. Our position in the warranty space is still relatively small. And so in Canada, I think there's room for us to keep finding both expansion opportunities with our existing partners and new partners to build the business. It is an area we're excited about and focused on continuing to grow.

Okay, that takes me to my next question. It's just you have capital to grow organically. You've got some debt capacity. Can you just refresh us on your interest from an acquisition perspective? Because warranty is a very fragmented market. There has been some transactions there. Where else would you be interested in that market? What other markets would you be interested in potentially inorganically growing? And are you seeing more conversations happen in this current market around potential deals?

The first thing I'd say, Doug, is our priority, as you've noted, is organic growth. And we do have quite a bit of opportunities in that space. To the extent we find opportunities inorganically that align with our risk appetite and our focus, we very actively look at those. That would include things in the warranty space. I think the US is an interesting market for us if ever something was to appear that could be attractive to help us build that practice. But I do note organic growth is our first priority. And you've seen us in the past execute on inorganic opportunities creatively. So things like book rollovers, license acquisitions to add to the platform. I think as we get larger, the opportunities for us to staple on initiatives that scale the platform, we will always be looking at those.

And when you say the U.S., you're talking primary line, I would assume?

Yeah, it's tough to find specialty lines businesses that are transactable and digestible for us. But if we found one in the primary line space, we would be very interested in it.

Yeah, okay. And then just lastly, you did release your reserve triangle. Maybe I'll just throw it open. What's the key message and there was positive developments and thoughts on how we should think about reserve developments as we're thinking through 2026?

Yeah, I think we've got a long history, especially in the Canadian entity, that people can track on a reserving basis. I think we talked a lot last year about the expectations around our U.S. practice improving. So worth noting this year, on a consolidated basis, there's favorable development of our reserves, which we think demonstrates a lot of the strength of the platform, that expectation is certainly our goal going forward on a consolidated basis. And we very much focus on our reserve in practice and businesses that we think can achieve that.

Appreciate the color. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Jeff Fenwick with ATB Cormorant Capital Markets. You may proceed.

Hi, good morning. I wanted to start my questions off with the subject of AI. I know it's topical for many firms these days. Dave, I was just hoping maybe you could provide us a bit of color or context around, maybe even more broadly on the technology front, how well you feel Tricera is positioned. Are there areas here that you're thinking about investing into? And I know a number of your peer companies call this out as a strategic advantage. So maybe just some thoughts there you could offer up for us.

Yeah, I think if we take a step back, today things are moving very, very quickly in this space, and I think it's incumbent on all companies, including insurance companies, to be armed and prepared to navigate this. We certainly think that there are opportunities for the industry and for us to improve operations or consider opportunities to evaluate these technologies. I think we have to be pragmatic that we're in a regulated industry that's highly complex. And so the most immediate benefits we expect to see from these types of initiatives are around those operational efficiencies. Frequency lines likely are going to benefit first from this. And so you've likely heard some competitors talk a lot about this around underwriting in the frequency line space or operations in those more typical commoditized lines. That doesn't mean that companies like ours in the specialty space can't benefit from this. And we are very actively evaluating uh ways that we can look at this although i wouldn't say that we would highlight anything just yet that's moving the needle economically so it's an exciting time to jeff it's it's a a time when a lot of people are testing out a lot of new things in the industry and and we have a lot of appetite to participate in that process okay thank you and and then on a different topic here just um i know one of the the priorities had been to expand triceratops presence in the in the broker

broker channel over the last couple of years, really, and I know you've called that out as a benefit for growth. What's the outlook there now? We're seeing, obviously, some continued consolidation in the space. Just wondering if that maybe creates more opportunities or challenges and where you stand in terms of building that broker network.

Yeah, on the second point, given our increased scale and size, the broker consolidation, we hope, is something we can navigate fairly calmly. In some cases, it actually helps us as we consolidate business with brokers we've got bigger relationships with. So that's a nuance in the market that impacts our share of probably differently today than it did 10 years ago. I think what you're likely referencing is the opportunity for us to increase wallet share with larger brokers. We tend to do a lot of business with some of the regional or specialized brokers. And I think we're starting to get some opportunity to transact more with some of those larger national broker groups. I will say there's still a lot of opportunity ahead there. So we've got a great set of broker partners and distribution partners in our current space. I think we're keen now as a North American player to expand those relationships on a broader geographic basis. And as we move up market in some of these lines, start to build relationships with some of those larger brokerage houses on a more substantial basis.

Great. Thank you. That's all I had.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Tom McKinnon with BMO Capital. You may proceed.

Yeah, thanks very much. Question with respect to really outlook in terms of combined ratio and growth for like surety and corporate and warranty. as well as some of the U.S. programs, you did say you expect surety to normalize. Certainly can't grow at the 36% rate going out, but if you can give us what you think would be a reasonable medium-term outlook for both top line growth as well as combined ratio in those four segments, surety, corporate warranty, and... and U.S. programs. That'd be great. Thanks.

Thanks, Tom. I think at a high level, if you think about TRISH or a specialty, which includes surety, warranty, corporate insurance, and Canadian fronting, that group should be right in or should be growing at about a mid-teens level in the top line next year. There's going to be some that are a little faster, some that are a little slower than that. But overall, that group we think comes out at about the mid-teens level. That combined ratio, we think, is anywhere between 86%, 87%. And so pretty consistent mid-80s combined, mid-teens growth on that business for the next year. U.S. programs, our target for next year or our expectation for next year is likely mid to high single digits growth in the top line. And I think that low 80s combined ratio is what you saw this year, and it's what we would expect next year.

Okay, thanks very much. And anything with respect to net investment income, as long as the premium growth keeps coming in, I mean, 25% growth year over year, at least in the fourth quarter, how should we be thinking about net investment income?

Yeah, a great proxy for net investment income, Tom, is if you take a look at the rate of growth and net premiums earned, this is a great way to see it as a preview of the capital that's available to be shifted into the investment portfolio. So what you've seen this year is the majority of our growth proportionally has been in those lines with higher retention. So those lines with higher net premium earned growth are feeding into that investment portfolio. I would say for next year, that trend of net premium earned growth feeding into the investment portfolio, that's a great proxy for you to model the growth in that entity. We are working in this environment to make sure we're defending yields. So reinvestment yields and book yields are getting closer than they used to be, but we still think it's a good environment to be deployed.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Bart Jarski with RBC Capital Markets. You may proceed.

Great. Thanks. Good morning guys. David wanted to ask in your shareholder letter, you talk about the investment portfolio being well positioned to take advantage of market dislocation and, you know, we're definitely seeing a market dislocation now. And so I wanted to just unpack how you're planning to kind of take advantage of that.

Yeah, I think we've got a really interesting opportunity in the investment portfolio part. We are historically, and I think going forward, expecting to be very conservatively positioned. This is a, capital preservation and yield focused portfolio. But as the market moves around, there's always opportunities to optimize that allocation or that positioning. So when we see opportunities or dislocations in the investment grade market, it allows us to either high grade or optimize the yield on a portfolio by shifting around the margins of duration and credit. We've also got a historically low allocation to equities. And so again, if you normalize or consider any changes in equity allocations, those types of environments make it very attractive to be considering it. And the positioning and posture that we have today gives us a lot of dry powder to capture these opportunities around the margins. I do want to highlight, we don't think that the mood here will be dramatic, but given our positioning, our posture, our capital strength, the portfolio has been very, very strong in its performance. And it set us up on a really great platform to launched from into 2026.

Great. Thanks for that. And then the follow-up would be, in your prepared remarks, you talked about strategic hires and a broader offering. I think that was regarding surety, but let me know if I've missed that. But just wanted to sort of dive into that. What are some of the initiatives on the ground in terms of these hires and broader offerings, and how could that impact the growth outlook?

Yeah. Actually, I'm referring to a couple of things there, Bart. We do talk about bringing on some new talent as we move up market in the surety practice, but we should also acknowledge we're building a de novo practice in a new market in U.S. corporate insurance and U.S. surety. So there's a lot of hiring activity that goes on there and then plugs into our established infrastructure. So those types of capabilities, experience, relationships, it's just nice to see Tresure being able to attract the high-quality people that have been joining the entity over the last a couple quarters, that type of initiative, our ability to bring on those people is really going to inform the next three, five, ten years of us building these practices. And these types of investments that we make today, we're really excited about seeing what they can do in the next few years.

Great. Very helpful. Thanks.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Tomer Levitin with Raymond James. You may proceed.

Hi, I'm just filling in for Steve Bolin at Raymond James here. But my first question is just on the admitted lines as a percentage of gross premium written in the U.S. That seems to have gone up. And I was just wondering on the dynamics there, was that an intentional push or just kind of a reaction to market dynamics at play? So just what's your outlook there?

I wouldn't say this is intentional or reactionary, Tomer. I would say this is more a function of maturity of some existing admitted lines programs that we've been writing now for a few years. So Admitted tends to take a bit longer to build up, but once it builds, it's a very sticky, sustainable business. And we've just seen over a number of years now with established partners, the proportion of admitted premium has just continued to grow. I would say our outlook is that that remains pretty consistent over the next year. I think we have about a third of our premium in the U.S. programs space is admitted right now. We still see the majority of our submission activity in the E&S space. And given the opportunity, complexity, and partners that we work with, I would assume that that majority ENS submission activity continues to stand. But it's nice to see the admitted platform is something we invested in and built starting probably in 2019. So it's been a long build process, but the platform today is very widely licensed and able to provide solutions across both admitted and ENS markets, which gives us a great position in this market.

Appreciate the caller. And then just my last question here. We saw some softening in Canadian fronting, and you mentioned some softening in specific corporate insurance segments or lines of businesses. So just kind of what's the outlook there? Do you see that continuing or potentially improving in the back end of fiscal year 26? Thanks.

Yeah, I would say we do continue to expect a competitive market in the Canadian fronting space. I think that that line will likely be on a premium basis flat to down a few points next year. That being said, the top line there we view as less relevant as a net underwriting income, and we've seen pretty consistent and sustained profitability out of that platform despite some moves up and down in the top line. Corporate insurance, as you've noted, it's a balancing market. We've seen some softening in certain lines. I think we expect... This next year, it continues to balance in certain lines. We expect some lines will be a bit more constructive this year. But overall, I think it's that trend will continue. That doesn't mean that we don't think we can grow in the corporate insurance space. And we've been doing a lot of work with our distribution partners and with our team to originate opportunities, as well as building out our U.S. corporate insurance functions. So despite those prevailing markets, we do still think we've got a differentiated ability to grow that platform.

That's all for me. Thank you.

Thank you. And as a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone. Our next question comes from Jamie going with National Bank. You may proceed.

Thanks. First question on the U.S. programs business. Good to see a couple quarters in a row here of high teens growth. Can you break down what's driving that growth? Is there the breakdown between new relationships, between price increases? Maybe it's all entirely existing relationships. Maybe talk through some of that.

I would say the majority, Jayme, is expansion or maturity of existing relationships. But what we did see differently in Q3 and Q4 is as a result of a support of a more constructive reinsurance market, we did launch a few new programs that started to get traction into the latter half of the year. You are seeing some benefit of that in the premium growth figures that you've seen in Q3 and Q4. So the US program space from a rate perspective I would say the property space is gaining more capacity. So we've seen rates in both the reinsurance space and marginally in the primary space decreasing a little bit. However, for us, the reinsurance availability and the quality of partners there has been a real improvement over the last couple of years, which gives us confidence to lead into the space. Casualty is still fairly firm on the front lines, on the primary line space. Casualty rates are still firm to rising. I would say the reinsurance terms, reinsurance partners that we have are consistent in that space. So it's been a nice year. It's been a consistent year in that business. And what's interesting to watch is as the reinsurance market continues to unlock, there may be more opportunities in that space.

Great.

Shifting to the Canadian front end. Obviously, another challenging quarter here. Can you give us a bit more detail in terms of, you know, how you're feeling for next year? You know, obviously still down a little bit, I think you were saying. But, you know, what gives you that confidence that we, you know, the declines we've seen in 2025 are not repeated in 2026? Is there a, you know, leveling out? Is there a, you know, just comfort with the relationships you have? What gives you that confidence?

Yeah, I think we're always doing work, James, to figure out what the portfolio is doing. The declines that we saw through 2025 were not a surprise given the state of the market. But we do see, I think, some expectations for those more dramatic declines to level out next year. Part of that's just looking at the portfolio partners that we have. Part of that's looking at the lines of business in the markets that we're in. So it's a mix, and it's partly an exercise that we do with our partners for what they expect to see in the market for the next year or so. So I would say I think it's fair, as you pointed out, to expect continued reductions in the top line. But I would say your comment that it was fairly weak, I would push back on. Underwriting income here is what we care about, and the underwriting income sustainability or durability has been relatively stable here. And I think that's a factor or at least an item to make sure we're acknowledging is that as top line moves around, as long as we've got here visibility to continue contribution from an underwriting income perspective, it's a practice we continue to enjoy.

So just to dig into that last point around the underwriting income, I think it's important as well. Flat in 2025 versus 2024, Is that the view in 2026, that we should expect flat underwriting income, and that would be driven by lower combined ratios than perhaps what we've seen in the last couple of years? Is it like a cost savings? Is it a scale benefit? How would you sustain stable underwriting income in a lower gross premiums written environment?

Yeah, what we saw this year is a bit better. bit better loss ratio. So most of this is going to be a function of how the portfolio performs in a loss ratio perspective, which is what sustained the underwriting income this year. I think you're right to point out, listen, if premium declines, eventually there's an impact on underwriting income. And that's a fair comment. And I think one that we acknowledge in the context of whatever loss ratio we achieve. So it's our expectation, certainly, if premium declines, eventually underwriting income declines. depending on what you achieve from a loss ratio perspective. So there's lots of opportunities in this renting space. I mean, we have partners being evaluated all the time. This is a space that tends to be chunky. And so what can happen is all of a sudden a partner can come on mid-year and change the structure of the business. And it's tough to predict that at this stage, but it's an opportunity and a practice that can navigate markets sometimes in a surprising way.

Yeah, OK. And do you, like in the US, we're seeing the, you know, reinsurance capacity increase globally and that's helping to drive, you know, a bit of a return to growth in US programs. Like why or are you seeing similar dynamics in Canada or why is it different and you're not seeing that reinsurance capacity flow?

Yeah, the drivers of US programs and Canadian fronting are a little bit different. So the markets here that we talked about in Canada in terms of competition and a bit of softness in the space, it's really a different driver than what we're talking about in the US from a reinsurance capacity perspective. So when we talk about the US program space at MGA market being more supportive by the reinsurance space, there's an ability here for these MGA's to continue growing or continue launching or bringing on new programs as reinsurance appetite unlocks. So as capacity increases in the reinsurance market and people are looking for areas to grow or for partners to grow with, this space in our practice becomes very attractive for that group. The Canadian space, the Canadian fronting space is a bit different. This is really a function of foreign partner interest and ability to grow in the Canadian market. And as that Canadian space has gotten more competitive, more partners, more people have entered that space. And so the nuances of capacity exist in both markets, but the execution and the evolution of those markets can be a bit different.

Yeah, got it. Okay, that's good. Thank you.

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call back over to David Clare for any closing remarks.

Thank you very much. I thank everyone for joining today. And as always, if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to reach out. We're looking forward to continuing to work with everyone in 2026. Thank you. Thank you.

This concludes the conference. Thank you for your participation.

You may now disconnect.