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spk01: Thank you for joining us for the SNP Interactive first quarter 2020 for earnings conference call. I am Atul Savarwal, founder and chief executive officer of SNP Interactive. Joining me today is Jason Garcha, chief financial officer. Please visit our investor relations site at SNP.com for a copy of our earnings press release and detailed financials, which have also been filed on CDAR. We present all financial figures in U.S. dollars unless otherwise indicated. Before we proceed, I'd like to remind everyone that today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. The first quarter of 2024 was a pivotal period for SNP as we continue to execute our strategic plan, aiming at enhancing our revenue mix and improving gross margins. As anticipated, our revenue for Q1 2024 was $4.7 million, down 29% from Q1 2023, $6.6 million. This decline was expected and tied entirely to the sunsetting of a single pilot contract inherited with the Gambit acquisition. By exiting this pilot contract, our gross margin significantly improved, rising to 54% from 26% in the same period last year. Despite this reporting decline, our EBITDA loss for Q1 2024 was 0.6 million, a notable improvement from the 1.1 million loss in Q1 2023. Our bookings backlog stood at 15.4 million as of March 31st, 2024, up 12% from 13.8 million on March 31st, 2023. We ended the quarter with 4.2 million in cash, and the company continues to be debt-free. Our strategic initiatives are centered on three key areas, improving our revenue mix, expanding our high margin core business, and driving innovation through our platforms. Here's how we progressed in each of these areas. Let's start with improving our revenue mix. We have been focused on sharing unprofitable revenue streams while securing contracts that align with our gross margin threshold of 50%. We have more MMR programs today than at any other time in our company history. This strategic shift is evident in our improved gross margins and the increased proportion of revenue from our core business, which grew by 29% year over year. Our efforts to reposition our revenue mix are paying off, setting us on a path towards sustained profitability. On expanding our core business, Our core SNP business continues to deepen and extend client relationships. We have strong momentum and have secured multiple large contracts, including the largest in our company's history, with the leading global food and beverage company recognized in over 50 countries. This contract alone is forecasted to generate over $6 million in revenue during the third quarter. Also, we were one of the three companies selected earlier this year by Walmart to execute programs tied to Walmart's retail media network. The recent record win of $6 million that we mentioned in our earnings release came via this channel, one that should continue to provide new opportunities going forward, as well as lock in our existing clients who want to leverage the power of Walmart's media. Additionally, we've secured several seven-figure deals across diverse industries, bolstering our sales pipeline recently with new marquee brands and new industries. These contracts underscore the strength of our platform and our compelling value proposition. While we would love to announce all these program wins, given the strategic nature of these programs for our clients, it becomes difficult to do so as it would amount to Snipp giving away our clients' future plans to their competitors. These plans fundamentally tied directly to our clients' tactics, tied to their market share, pricing, new product introductions, and more, depending on the program type they're utilizing the Snipp platform for. As such, we are limited in what we can tell investors when we win these programs. On the third plank of driving innovation through platforms, let me spend a moment touching on the innovation we are driving. First, our SNP media platform was launched in partnership with Bank of America and is demonstrating strong early performance. With high engagement levels and strong conversion rates, we're excited about the prospects of SNP media given the early metrics that we are seeing. We have both our inside and outside SNP sales teams working hard to evangelize this new market offering and bring CPG clients to SNP Media. As with any innovation, clients have to be first marketed to, after which they will pilot the offering before including it in their regular spend cycles. At this stage, we are very much in the marketing phase of the clients. We've been very receptive to hear about yet another innovation that Snip is bringing them, as well as the initial data on performance metrics of Snip Media. Over time, you will see more pilot clients coming on board, and this will be directly reflective of the number of offers available in the Bank of America app to begin with. In addition to focusing on bringing in new clients, we are also focusing on expanding the audience to which our clients can place offers with. While Bank of America was our first large publisher, we are continuing our partnership conversations with other financial institutions and are on the cusp of having another large institution teed up to launch with Snip Media by the third quarter. This will further expand Snip Media's audience to over 60 million eyeballs. As we talked about last month on our year-end call, Snip Media is unique because it is the only product in the market that allows CPG brands to bring specific SKU-level offers to banking customers. This proprietary Snip technology also enables Snip to disrupt the $30 billion couponing industry that is predominantly still paper-based in North America. On our second platform, let's talk about Gambit. To remind everyone, Gambit is the only technology that allows players to gamble with different forms of loyalty points rather than with cash. Recently, some of you might have seen multiple news coverage about Dave & Co Busters, one of our early clients for Gambit. As a trailblazer in this space, they've attracted a lot of attention to the loyalty gaming space, including regulatory and political. We view these developments as positive from the perspective of moving the loyalty gaming industry forward. The sooner our clients get comfortable with the free-to-play nature of our sportsbook that is validated by regulatory bodies, the faster their adoption will be. So entering this next phase of broader awareness among stakeholders in this industry is exciting for us. As with all disruptive innovations, the path forward will not necessarily be a straight line, but we continue to believe that the loyalty gaming industry is still in its very early stages, and we are working hard to fine tune the business model to make it not only economically viable to all parties, but also steer clear of any political and regulatory hurdles. Economically, today, Gambit is a 41% margin business in its first quarter without the legacy hangover of the contracts that came with Snip's acquisition of Gambit. We know there are many companies and industries that are looking to bring new loyalty innovations to their members, and using their loyalty points to wager is certainly an innovative and unique offering from Snip. Economically, we now have the model, so now we are working hard to expand this to new clients. Looking out through the remainder of 2024, we are optimistic about leveraging our investments and expect these efforts to materialize in our financials, especially in the back half of the year. Our strategic initiatives and recent large contracts position us well for sustained top-line growth and profitability. The loyalty and promotions marketplace is gaining traction and valuation driven by technological advancements, To no one's surprise, our Fortune 500 customers are coming to us to help them reach their end users as the laws regarding consumer privacy are getting tougher and more strict. And just as importantly, since many investors have also asked us about AI, yes, we do use AI within our receipt engine in multiple different ways. One example is to help our customers fight promotion fraud. Given the amount of data we collect, we have multiple users of AI within our business and have multiple features around AI in our product roadmap that we will be releasing over the course of the year. From an industry perspective, we expect continued industry consolidation with Snip well positioned to capitalize on these trends. Our robust backlog and strong pipeline of new business combined with our focus on high margin contracts will drive our growth trajectory. We anticipate continued margin improvements in the upcoming quarters with profitability scaling in the second half of the year when promotional activity is typically stronger. The momentum from our recent contracts will carry us forward, and we are confident in our ability to achieve our financial targets for the year. We would hope our investors leave this earnings call with the following three key takeaways. One, gross margin improvement. Our revenue mix has shifted back to our historical higher margin profile. While our top line was pressured by the end of one Gambit legacy contract, our gross margins now exceed 50%, enabling us to sharply improve our EBITDA and strengthen our balance sheet. Two. Our robust backlog and pipeline are delivering not only in frequency of deal flow, but also in magnitude, as evidenced by the large deal we disclosed in our earnings press release. Simply, our backlog and pipeline of new business are the strongest they have ever been. We're winning significant deals with major brands across diverse industries, reflecting the robustness of our platform and our strategic positioning. The changes in customer privacy laws and our increased adoption of AI around receipt and promotion execution help put us in a unique position as we talk to our Fortune 500 customers. And three, Snip Media has marquee customers in the early stages of adoption. We're building out an ecosystem, aligning all of our partners, and finalizing all of the pieces that will allow for significant expansion in the quarters that lie ahead. This is an opportunity that we are excited about and look forward to sharing more updates on in the near future. I'll hand this over to Jason now to talk briefly about our financial results.
spk03: Thank you, Atul. As mentioned before, our revenue for Q1 2024 was about 4.7 million compared to 6.6 million for Q1 of 2023, a decrease of 29%. But as indicated, this decline was expected and linked to the sunsetting of a single pilot contract from the Gambit acquisition. However, our core SNP business saw its revenue increase a very healthy 29% year over year. Gross margin for Q1 2024 was 54%, a significant improvement from 26% in Q1 2023. Also, our EBITDA for Q1 2024 was negative at about 600,000, but this is a significant improvement compared to Q1 2023, where we recognized an EBITDA loss of about 1.1 million, representing an EBITDA improvement of 500,000. Our bookings backlog stood at $15.4 million on March 31, 2024, representing an increase of 12% from March 31, 2023, and our cash at the end of Q1 was about $4.2 million, and the company remains debt-free. I will now hand the call back to Atul for some closing remarks.
spk01: Thanks Jason. Let me close by thanking all of our hardworking team members for their strong execution and helping Snip deliver meaningful growth in our core business, as well as the margin improvement. I would also like to thank all of you investors that have followed the company over the years. We have close to 50 people on this call today, which might just be a record. As we continue to look for ways of unlocking shareholder value, we continue to explore multiple paths to an uplisting of our shares to a more formidable exchange. We think that an uplisting will help foster investor and customer awareness, improve trading liquidity, and narrow the valuation gap between us and our U.S.-listed peers. At this time, we cannot provide a timeline for when an uplisting might take place, but be rest assured, we are investing the time and energy to find the optimum path to do so. As we move forward, our commitment to driving sustainable profitability has never been stronger. We are excited about the opportunities ahead and look forward to sharing more details in the coming quarters. Once again, please be mindful of the seasonality of our business. Similar to 2023, our current backlog, which is amongst the strongest in the history of the company, dictates that profitability should be weighted towards the back half of the year when the promotional calendar amongst our customers is typically more robust. With marquee partners and customers from a variety of industries, such as Walmart, Bank of America, Bali's, and over seven of the top 10 CPG companies in the world, having already validated the effectiveness of our platform, we are energized by the prospect of future big wins from household names. I think that marks the end of our formal comments. Let's open it up for questions. You guys want to just raise your hands or in the chat, ask us any questions that you might have, and we'd be happy to address them.
spk03: Atul, we have a question from Daniel Rosenberg. Yeah. Hey, Dan.
spk00: Hi, good morning, Atul and Jason. My first question comes around the $6 million win that you mentioned coming in Q3. Can you just speak to kind of the timing of potential deals around that? And how should we be thinking about the cadence of these wins as you're kind of scaling the media business for the next four quarters, let's say? Just difficult to model here, so just any insight would be appreciated.
spk01: Yeah, so this one, this program, it's not a media, it's not a SNP media win. It's a standard SNP buy X, get Y win traditional business. The media they will use is the Walmart media to drive the program. This program, we won this program this year from a large, large competitor that's owned by a large, large cable network. the program starts at the end of june and and and ends at the end of september so it'll be bang in the middle of q3 the cadence so that was that part and i think the last part of the question was the cadence of these wins um i hope very frequently um i can't forecast that yet but um we do have other wins not necessarily at the six million level but at the one or two million dollar levels that will kick in across Q4 that we know of right now. Yeah, a little bit of this is, you know, now that we have approval to be a vendor, an approved vendor of Walmart's, and we have all of these other clients, you know, we can now start approaching them for some of these larger type programs.
spk00: Okay. And then as it relates to the kind of Walmart program, I mean, that's obviously a big chunk if we were to compare year over year or to any quarter. So how much of that would you say is kind of the focus in the quarter versus kind of this is just incremental gravy, not gravy, but incremental business, let's say? Just how should we be thinking about that Q3 as it lines up towards your historical prints?
spk01: So I think it's an interesting question. I would say that there's definitely an element of incrementality to this program in our Q3 historical performance, if you want to compare it. Yeah, I think I would definitely term this as an incremental piece of business because even though this client has been a client of Snips for a while, we wouldn't have been privy to this program did we not have the approval from Walmart. Do you see what I'm saying? So I would definitely call this an incremental to a steady state forecast.
spk00: Okay, great to hear. And then maybe turning to the initiatives around the bank offerings, any progress there? I mean, obviously, this is a focus with the core customer, but any potential on broadening the client base? Or is the focus just really scaling the initial traction that you have?
spk01: So I want to make sure I understand your question, Dan, and we can talk more. I think we're talking right after this call. So we are definitely, let's talk about it in two ways. One is the publisher, the Bank of Americas of the world, right? Yes, we are focused on expanding the network to other financial institutions, if that was the question that you were asking me, right? That's what I mentioned earlier today. We should have another large publisher. financial institution come on board soon that we would launch on so that when a client comes to us, we can propagate our offers across multiple banking partners, making it even more powerful for the brand to reach a very quality audience that's not just looking for offers. So that's on the publishing side. On the other side, which is expanding our clients, yes. So if you look at Snip Media, it's one of a kind, just launched in the market. It's never – take a Kellogg or a Nestle or a P&G, all great clients of ours. They have never had access to put offers in front of people who have bank accounts, all of us. right basically in in through a banking channel right sure they can reach you in other ways um but these are banking customers using banking apps who have offers from retailers but they've never had offers from manufacturers because a bank doesn't see what someone buys inside a store they only know that you went to a store and swiped your card right so we've solved that problem so when you say bringing in new customers yeah i mean all of these customers are going to be new even though they might have been really old customers of snip and and that's the beauty of this right we have access to these customers but as with all cpg clients it's not you know something that they'll just sign off on on day one they completely love the media aspect of it given it's a new channel but they will first try it they'll pilot it and then you know like by the by the end of this year they'll be making decisions in their head saying hey should we do an ibotta program should we do a snip media program should we do a paper coupon program and you know because our banking because our network and our publishers have a higher quality audience remember ibotta which would be the nearest comparable here um has a great audience but it's an audience of people looking for deals that is margin destruction right The banking audience is not an audience that's necessarily only looking for deals. There's a broader audience there, way broader, right? So just to end this, I mean, you know, if you think about bringing in new clients, right? Yeah, I mean, all of these are new clients for us in the world of media. For all of the 300 to 400 programs that we do in a year, up until... the march of this year we never took any media budgets from our clients now we actually have a credible mechanism to just go after those 400 programs as an example and say hey would you like to also place your media with us versus whoever they were placing it with before
spk00: Okay, I appreciate that. And then lastly, for me, I just wanted to ask about the Gambit side of the business. So it's a bit of a big shift on the top line as the pilot rolls off. Just any color you could share in terms of the pipeline on that side of the business, any visibility you have on there would be helpful. Thank you.
spk01: Yeah. So let me give you some color there, right? We have at this stage, spoken to a ton of different brands. If you go look at DraftKings, you know, today Pepsi just did a deal with DraftKings to run a sweepstakes with DraftKings, right? So brands are more than happy to associate with things that are core to their values, right? So we have spoken to multiple brands, and they all have been very, very receptive to the Gambit model, saying this is cool. We can associate with sports in a new, engaging way instead of giving you back PayPal or giving you back gift cards. This is a more exciting thing that drives user engagement, participation, right? Where it gets stuck in some ways is when it gets to legal, where legal says, hey, listen, let's just – trade slowly, they're waiting to see other people do it before they'll all come and do it right. And that's why I talked about Dave and Buster's right there. You can I don't know if you guys have been following the industry, but like there's a lot of chatter going on politically and you know, hey, how can they do this? You know, but it's not gambling. They're trying to now introduce different types of gambling within their stores. But it's all good because it's making people have those tough conversations. So we do have a pipeline, right? We're developing it carefully, you know, and it's just, I think, in my mind, a matter of time before we get more companies of the ilk of the Pepsis and the Monsters and the Red Bulls who will say, yeah, you know what? We're not going to get into trouble for an environment where people can bet free tokens for more free tokens. So it's not going to be a straight line, like I mentioned. But the interest is really, really high. So you just got to have a little bit of patience. This is going to be, I think, for us, a very interesting, you know, we're in the middle of two banks and we're in the middle of the river right now that we just have to find a way to cross over. And once we cross over, it'll be a steady state type of tactic that our clients would use on their programs.
spk00: All right. Thanks for taking my questions. I'll pass the line.
spk01: Thanks, Daniel.
spk03: And Atul, we have a couple questions in the chat.
spk01: Okay, yeah, I see that. So thanks, Ian. So Ian's first question is, did you have to offer any concessions to win the large $6 million program against the competitor, or is that still at your historical gross margin profile? Okay, great question. Here's the thing. This client is already a client of ours, and we didn't have to offer any concessions. because they were already a client of ours. They know our pricing. They know all of that. We just didn't have approval from Walmart. And once we got that, it became easy to close the deal on our platform. We already have all that data, et cetera, et cetera, right? The second part of your question is, is that still at your historical gross margin profile? So for programs of this type, I'm not going to get into the type of program. This is a program where where we know past participation because they've been running the same program for a few years, not with us, right? They run other programs with us. For this type of program, it is the same gross margin profile. It's not going to be at the same gross margin profile of our core business, but you won't be able to, like, again, we look for 50% margin on an average across the year, right? So part of this $6 million is projected as I put out on the press release. That's how it's performed typically every single year. So there's no reason to believe it will perform any differently this year. But there is an element of performance in it. which we feel very confident that it will be no different than last year. So if it hits the performance metrics that it has for every single year for the last few years, I think our gross margin profile might not be at the 50% margin rate for this program, but on an annualized perspective, when you look at it, it won't affect our margin profile. But as a single contract, no, it'll be at a lower margin profile. Ian, do you want to continue on this, or can I move on to your next question? Okay. Thanks. So, Ian, second question is, what, if any, expectations do you have for SNP Media revenue ramp in 2024? We do have a model internally. You know, we've got a large client putting out their first cross-portfolio set of offers in the next few weeks. I would say that today I don't have a concrete guidance that I could give you on what our revenue ramp would be in 2024 for Snip Media. We do think in the back of this year, it'll start contributing to us, but our internal model, if we can get to a million dollars of contribution from that business this year, we would be above our model's estimates. Okay. Brian, you have a few questions, but there are no questions posted.
spk04: Hi, Atul. Can you hear me?
spk01: Yeah, we can hear you.
spk04: Okay. Here are my questions. So you finished the quarter at 15.4 million of backlog. And then you mentioned the $6 million Q3 deal as well as various seven-figure deals. Are you able to comment on where your backlog sits at the moment?
spk01: As of right now, we closed the $6 million deal in this quarter, so it won't show up in the $15 million figure. And there's only been in the month of June, the first quarter ended March 31st. So of that 15 million, what would have been recognized as revenue from changing from bookings backlog to revenue would only be for the months of April and May, correct? So not only have we sold, so put it this way, you can do 15 plus six plus whatever sales have been for these two months minus whatever revenue we recognized. That would be the range of our bookings backlog as of right now. Okay.
spk04: And as you look at the remainder of the calendar year, you've spoken about how seasonality gets much stronger in the second half, and then you have the 29% growth year over year in Q1. Is it reasonable to view a number of around 30 million? Right. for your revenue. And that's, you know, that's what I'll say, the uncertainty of SNP media not really layering in a whole lot in that regard. And then if you're also looking to, I'll say, be in the, you know, mid to upper 50s in margins, It's it's pretty easy to get to revenues of 30Million and up around 4Million dollars. Is that is there anything off in the way I'm looking at that?
spk01: I think, um. okay so let's start on margin first right our focus this year is margin right we want to make sure we project 50 margin um to start with so i would i would not guide you guys to 30 million of revenue in our base case because when you start focusing on margin and you know We only focus on marquee clients who would provide us a business that can generate margin. Certain deals, to Ian's question earlier today on the margin profile of this $6 million deal, for example, there are certain deals strategically we would take on, but there are other deals we won't. Why would we take on a lower margin deal? Why? Because it's a strategic client and B, because it's a strategic partner. So it's worth getting deeper into the relationship with both sides of the fence, so to speak. Right. But if I took 10 of those deals in a year, I mean, it boils down to the age old question. Would you rather I grow 100 percent at 25 percent margin? Didn't do much for our business last year, did it? So we changed that. Right. So we grow slower. So this year is that year of shift. So to simply answer your question, I would not guide to 30 million. Is it potentially doable? Absolutely. Especially if we find a way to pivot our exchange from the Toronto Stock Exchange to the U.S. markets, basically. We also have other non-organic elements that are Balls in the air that we can execute on if the currency that we have is appropriate. That could easily take us to that, if not above that mark. But as a base case of our core business, as I call it, Mother Earth, and some people may follow me, but I would not like to tell you. Is that fair? Right. So. why we are focusing on margin and not the ebitda growth profile of the company is because we are still investing right part of our growth has come from hiring a cmo come from hiring a chief revenue officer in chris kuba um you know part of it is also moving trying to move ourselves to the us markets is going to cost us money so i can't guide to an ebitda profile because there's going to be expenses related to unlocking future value in the equity markets and and you know on a steady state your numbers would be fine But we're not in a steady state, right? So it's a question of I don't want to project a number to you guys when we know we're going to make strategic moves. But that will cost us money and drain EBITDA. I could get to an adjusted EBITDA metric maybe down the road.
spk04: And that's completely understandable. And I guess as investors, I'm hoping everyone appreciates that you can kind of get to those numbers absent the investment. And so I think given where you've been, maybe people aren't able to see as much as what lies in the future. So I'm really just looking to point that out. And understanding you're not really looking to focus on that, I guess I would encourage you to get as close to that as you can. But I want to take things a step further. If you're essentially in your 2024 investor deck, you've got the uh you know tripling of of revenues by 2025 and i want you to kind of build on that by by taking us into 2025 without layering on with with basically just speaking of mother earth your core business where you think that that's going and what sort of a growth rate you could see for calendar year 25, or a range of growth rates, and then whatever you want to layer on top of that in terms of, you know, SNF media, Gambit, opportunistic acquisitions. But if you can start with just kind of what sort of growth you see for the core business.
spk01: You know, so I think our core business growth rates are always, you know, we always baseline it at 15 to 25% a year. That's, you know, but again, we say profitable growth. Look, we have different levels, right, that we can pull depending on what we think is the right mechanism to unlock shareholder value. Not diluting the company is a you know i don't want to be diluted i'm sure none of y'all do too right so making sure we have enough dollars on the available to make the right investments um has to come from our own earnings our growth rate for our core business will remain in the you know i would just say in the worst case 15 you know 25 to 30 on the top end of that range And that's how we grow that business. But that business really is a platform, and that platform, by definition, allows us to spin out, you know, when I say spin up, I should say not spin out, spin up associated businesses that allow us to capture, share a wallet with our clients. Both Gambit and Snip Media, our fundamental risk, you know, mitigation on them is it actually drives sales of our core business, right? You can't do Gambit without a loyalty program. Hence, customers were interested by our loyalty program. Case in point is Bali's. The second case in point is a large launch that we're doing with a marquee tobacco company that literally will hit the market this week. It was sold a while back. Three big brands launch this week. But they're also interested in loyalty gaming, right? Same with media, right? The infrastructure of Snip Media actually allows us to get into the couponing space and provide that one tactic in the promotion space that we don't. So to answer your question, I think that I think I gave you the range for our core business without any acquisitions. But that's what, you know, we plan backwards from because then we know we can create some investment dollars to put back.
spk04: That is it for me.
spk01: Thank you very much. That we can take to our clients.
spk03: Atul, before you get to the chat question, there's also Florian has his hand up to ask some questions.
spk01: Yeah, sure. Hey, Florian. Absolutely. We can't hear you, Florian. Okay, Florian, while you figure out your mic, I will take Andre's question. So Andre's question is, expanding the core business to new industries and geographically has been a long-term goal. What recent developments would you highlight that make these goals more achievable than in the past? I tell you, the first thing that makes this more achievable is the fact that we actually have people and we have a team. It all starts with having a team in the markets that can cover the markets that we want. We have now painstakingly built a team in Europe that covers our clients in Europe and Middle East, right? We have, I think last quarter I mentioned we crossed a few million in revenue from that, in bookings from that market for the first time. That market is as big as North America. I would, I mean, it just is. Our clients are global. Our execution capability was not global. Now we still have the clients that are global, but now we have the execution capability. And that's the encouraging part of another upside driver for our business that we don't talk enough about, actually.
spk02: Florian? Yeah, can you hear me now?
spk01: Now we can.
spk02: Okay, perfect. Atul, can you remind people how much of your business is sort of recurring or quasi-recurring?
spk01: Yeah, so for the first time, like, you know, it's not quasi, it's really recurring. Let's stop there. Sorry, Florian. So we have right now 24 distinct loyalty programs or slash ongoing programs in the world of rebates, for example, running at SNP. And these are just long-term recurring contracts, which have a monthly fee that comes to us. And then whatever the transaction volume is on the programs, there's some amount of variable revenue that comes to us. Now we're continuing to pound the pavement on that. Our long-term recurring contracts, Revenue right now, Jason, do we have a calculated number there?
spk03: We usually have just disclosed that it's a certain percentage, whether it's below 50% or above 50%.
spk01: So let's put it this way. I think we are in the range of $7 million to $8 million of recurring revenue, just to give you guys a number. And maybe what we'll do is we'll start calculating a metric for you guys. to analyze. But yeah, it's growing. The number of programs is growing. Clients are signing on for longer terms with us. So yeah.
spk02: That's awesome. And then once again, Brian already mentioned that your goal of crippling revenue by 25, I think you mentioned at one point also something like 75 million as your ambition. Can you comment a little bit more on that? Is that still realistic? What ways do you think are they existing to get there? And maybe it's not a 25 million, story, but more 26, but what sort of would need to happen for you to get there?
spk01: Yeah. So 75 by 25 is definitely something that we've said and continue to say. It assumed that again, it was, it was not a projection. So I want to start by saying that it was a, it was an ambition to get there, right? When you look at our business today, Everyone's probably going to wonder how we're going to get there. We built two, we built two upside, we built two new pieces into our platform in Gambit and Smith Media. So it's not inconceivable that we could get there if any of these businesses start ramping and scaling. So that, I'd say that, right? Also, if we do manage to get a better currency in terms of our stock price, we can do a few more inorganic things, which was part of that assumption, right? So between the core business, say the core business is 25 million, right? And say you do some matching, right? We do 400 programs a year, give or take, right? Take a hundred of those programs and say we get a media budget of 200 to 250,000 for each of them, you can start layering the media value of our, you know, on top of this core business of our core revenue. And if you think that Gambit can actually scale, you know, we can add another 10 million there. So there are ways to get there, but it always presumes that we're going to have some currency to do something inorganic because there are many opportunities to do that. It's not going to come entirely from an inorganic roll-up strategy. I'm not asking for a roll-up strategy. I'm just asking for currency because if we want to get to 75 by 25, it's totally achievable. On the back of a majority of our core business, our core businesses, these three, Earth, Moon, and Mars, as we call it, but it has to be coupled with a few strategic acquisitions because that will get us faster traction in the market just to buy revenue and buy clients who we can put on our platforms. So, I don't know if I'm answering your question, Florian.
spk02: No, that's perfect, yeah.
spk01: It's not 2025 yet. I'm not saying we're going to get to $75 million, but there's a path to get there. But a few things have to fall in place for it to happen. A $0.10 stock price isn't going to allow me to get there. To grow, you need capital or a currency. Right.
spk02: do you have for 2025 do you have a revenue number where you would say you're disappointed that you only got there and not higher nice way to ask me the same question what are we going to do in 2025 um if if our business is not um
spk01: generating sustained EBITDA by 2025, I'd be disappointed. Let me just flip the conversation to the bottom line. At the end of the day, that's my only luxury of making sure we can continue to innovate and grow the business and add value for not only for our clients, but actually, you know, hopefully even shareholder value comes out of generating EBITDA, right? As opposed to just revenue growth. I can grow the business to 75 million at 10% margin. I'm not sure anybody would like that.
spk02: On the topic of a NASDAQ listing, can you talk about the different ways you are considering to get there?
spk01: Yeah, so from a NASDAQ listing perspective, there are a couple of different avenues to do it. One is to just do a direct listing, right? The other is to find... Companies that we can spin into that are clean shells that we can take over. So we're exploring a few different options right now. And we'll definitely keep you guys informed as some of these materialize. I mean, the key really thing is the cost of making the move, putting in the finance team infrastructure to get it done. So we just have to plan all of that carefully so we don't burn a hole in the cash sitting on our balance sheet to enable that. But we've got different conversations going on right now, and we've had multiple conversations in the past, as some of you know. It's just finding the right mechanism and not doing it just for the sake of doing it. but doing it in a way that's well thought out that doesn't actually disrupt the value we've created.
spk02: Okay, last one from me. Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with Bali's?
spk01: Yeah, so Bali sits on our board. It's a good relationship. That company in itself is undergoing a tremendous amount of change. As you guys might have read in the news, there's an offer to privatize them. So they're very distracted by that currently. As a result of some of the changes going on within Bali's, their rollout plans are unclear to us. I think it's unclear to them too. But it's a very healthy relationship and we continue to work closely with them. They have four programs running with us. that continue to grow. Very good feedback from their teams. But yeah, that's where the relationship's at right now. I would say it's frozen for now as they figure out their own corporate evolution. There are opportunities for us to get deeper with them in many areas that we continue to discuss. Actually, great question, because part of unlocking our share price in some ways to a more reasonable number would actually enable them to be more comfortable in doing more things with us since they are an equity owner and can actually contribute quite significantly to driving equity value for the company. So, you know, we continue to like from an operational execution perspective, it's great from a, you know, shareholder strategic perspective. We could do much more with them, but for that, you know, we need to show them also that the stock prices More robust, I would say.
spk02: Okay, that's it for me. Thanks a lot.
spk01: Okay. I don't see any more questions, so if there are no more questions, then yeah, guys, we'll talk to you after second quarter ends. Thanks, everybody. Appreciate the time.
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